Getting some red flags, would like opinions | Sphynxlair

Getting some red flags, would like opinions

Discussion in 'Sphynx Cat Tails' started by Gadzukz, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Gadzukz

    GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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    I have been waiting on the part sphynx CL kittens and have emailed asking for pics and also pics of the mommy. I got some pretty blurry kitten pics and then mom, here's the alarm bells there are two mommy cats, not one, the moms are clearly PART sphynx, but not hairless. She says they are donskoy sphynx (dont those sometimes have more coat?) One of the mommy cats, looks like a kitten herself, and she says that one is sick right now. Also she is thinking of letting them go at possibly 6 or 7 weeks, i guess due to mom being sick. Getting info on the parents is like pulling teeth. Some emails go unanswered and others are answered vaguely and with one line replies.The picture background looks like a breeding setup to me. I am including the pics I got for your opinions. My husband says these kitties need love too, and I want a sphynx kitten so badly, but I am just getting weird vibes here. Let me know what you think please.

    Here is the email I got today:
    Iwill probably have all the ones with the less hair around. You can pic the two you like. The male orange one has his mother's personality which is typical of sphynxes. The first pic is of Naula the orange kitties' mama and the second is of Goldi the white kitten's mom. You can see they have some hair, but are half bald. Naula might have lost some more hair during her pregnancy. She is sick now:(.


    Mom one pic
    [​IMG]

    Mom two this is the one that is now sick
    [​IMG]

    kitten pics
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

  2. ilovemysphynx

    ilovemysphynxAdministrator Staff Member

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    ??????? No wonder they are sick looks like it is very dirty:Angry:
    Can I ask what she is charging for a kitten?
    6 to 7 weeks is way to young and the chances of the kittens having a problem is super hi on top of the fact that she has already said she has at least one cat that is sick, I would say that you are getting sick kittens no matter what.
    If they are free then you would be doing these kittys a favor but if she is selling them you are promoting poor breeding. I don't want to sound harsh but the cats look real bad and that man made cage is awful:Angry: I would like to put the owner in there!

    The decision is yours and I know that you want a kitten bad, and seeing the conditions makes you and your hubby want to help, I would go there and have a look. If it is as bad as it looks a complaint needs to be filled. No more kittens should have to like there.

    Sorry just my 2 cents
     
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    • TanyaT

      TanyaTV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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      Wow! They look like they are in rough shape. I suppose anyone who gets them I would hope they would have a better life then being caged in those things! They look like small rabbit cages:Angry: Poor babies!

      I agree with Ilovemysphynx, if she is charging, NO WAY! Free sure, but know what you could be getting into as the potential of getting a sick kitty.

      Good luck, keep us posted!
       
    • Shauntay

      ShauntayBanned

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      I agree with everyone's reply, this is obviously a miller or byber. If you give these people money, you will only be supporting these people and their practices. If they are offering them for free, its a hard decision. If it were me, although I would want to save these kittens, my first responsibility is to my cats at home, and I would never risk their health by bringing home an ill cat, with potentially contagious diseases. I would immediately file a complaint with your local spca. Make a huge huff about it, because this is outrageous. You dont even need to see the premises, a cat should never be subjected to confinement in a cage like that, regardless of situation. And breeding a sick cat, Im so mad right now!! I think the best help you can give these kitties, moms included, is get the authorities there, with any luck all cats will be removed and helped by a vet and then rehomed. Thank god you did by chance, open communication with this person, otherwise no one would know and this might continue!!
       
    • ckutkuhn7

      ckutkuhn7Banned

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      With the looks of those kitties I would contact SPCA right now! I have chills writing this I'm so upset. Animals of any kind deserve a better and cleaner home than what it looks like they have right now. The poor mother cat looks like she is in really bad shape. It seriously reminds me of the sad commercials on TV that choke me up everytime! I would ask for a visit and check it out and make sure your suspicion is true. If indeed true I'd make an appt to come back at a later time for the money to go down and leave. I'd call SPCA as soon as I got in my car! I'd report the heck out of them. I really hope the kitties are truely in a good home right now and maybe the pictures just look more awful then it really is but I know of no one that keeps their cats in a cage like that! Please keep us posted, I hope there is a happy ending in the near future for this cat family.
       
    • Gadzukz

      GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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      Yep, when I saw the pics, I started getting bad vibes. looking at the cage, my husband noted that it looks well used, not like something just built for a new litter. As for the fee, she is asking $20 for the fuzzy ones, and now $50 for the more hairless ones, or 2 for $80. It's not a high fee, but is not free. I sent an email asking about the mommy being sick, and she sent one back saying that the litter has been hard on her, but she is doing better. I am not even sure what that means.

      I have worked closely with animal control in the past, and my husband is a police officer, unfortunately as long as the cats have food water and shelter there is very little animal control can do. I am going to try and go see them and see if there is anything I can report to authorities, believe me, I have NO problem doing it!!! I don't think I will be able to though, she won't give me an address, and wants to just meet somewhere with the kittens.

      My gut says it is bad, I don't want to bring anything into my cats, and I doubt the cats have had any vacc. I know the kittens have not, but I really want to help them, that pic of the mommy looks soooooo young! Her face just begs for help and it's killing me.
      I sent this email just now:

      Can you tell me what was wrong with her? I worry about bringing any respiratory illness in to my cats, as we lost a cat to that before. The mom looks very young, have you had her long? Her face is so sweet, would you consider adopting her out?


      Thank you all for your opinions.
       
    • holly_savage

      holly_savageBanned

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      :Angry::Angry::Angry:
      no time to type, but
      :Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry:
      Report these people!
       
    • ckutkuhn7

      ckutkuhn7Banned

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      Your right - I did some research online and there are ZERO kitten/puppy mill laws. And the laws for how an animal should be kept are very weak. As long as food and water is supplied it doesn't really matter where they are kept as long as there is adequate space provided for each animal within its contained area.
      A huge red flag is her wanting to meet you somewhere. I would try the honest route with her and just tell her you would rather meet there because you want to check out her breeding ethics and conditions as the photos have raised you some concern. Hopefully she would invite you in and prove us all wrong. The rehoming fees don't sound outrageous as you would pay more than that at a rescue shelter. I hope these kitties find something better than what it looks like they have now. Goodluck with whatever you decide.
       
    • Gadzukz

      GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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      Yep, our state really sucks for animal protection laws!
       
    • susi794

      susi794Moderator Staff Member

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      Everything in me screams to GO GET THEM ALL! Even if animal control couldn't do something, can't the aspca?
       
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      • Mews2much

        Mews2muchV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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        That place looks nasty and you can tell they are sick for sure.
        She is a kitten mill for sure.




         
      • EmbraceMonChat

        EmbraceMonChatLairian

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        Just my perspective...

        That enclosure pic looks like a basement. The window looks small and up high, like my basement windows. Now, I have some homemade shelving like that in my basement for storage (the hose, the baby pool for the dogs, you know the stuff) but I don't have chicken wire on it. Soooo, I don't quite get what it was built for, if not for kittening cages.

        Also note that there is a roof above Mom #2's head. The window, hence the ceiling of the room, obviously extends higher than the roof of the cage unit. My gut says if we could see the whole pic, we'd see a multi tier homemade kitten cage unit. While they are sometimes used to keep mom's and babies safe, they are usually very clean, and kept comfortable and cozy. I'm not seeing any of that in those pictures.

        I don't know what to tell you. My heart breaks for those kittens and the Moms. OMG how I would love to get the Moms outta there! I just picked up Sabrina yesterday and had the chance to see some of her breeder's set up. The difference is drastic! So while part of me wants to rescue those cats...another part of me knows there's a better way to acquire a kitten from better surroundings and support a person who at least has a set of ethics and compassion for the animals in her care!
         
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        • Gadzukz

          GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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          I got this reply, what do you guys think?

          It is just her mammary gland. We had the doctor look at it and she just needs some medicine which she is on.(it won't hurt the kittens.) I would consider adopting Goldi out but not Naula. She is special to me. I will be getting her fixed. The kittens will probably help pay for that and shots for the other cats. They are both almost three years old.


          I don't know what to think, I am going to try and go there in person and be honest like Christina suggested, about wanting to see where they are being housed. It gives me hope that she is getting the mom fixed and vacc
           
        • ckutkuhn7

          ckutkuhn7Banned

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          Goodluck - some take a huge offense to this but if she is truely legit then she will completely understand and be open to your visit. Just say it in the most non judgemental way possible. I would just ask if I could be frank and then speak my concerns and see what her response is. Hopefully she realizes your just concerned and what not.
           
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          • EmbraceMonChat

            EmbraceMonChatLairian

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            They can get mamary cysts...the nipple gets hard and inflamed and can rupture if left untreated.
            Any lactating cat or dog can get it, not just animals in sub standard conditions. If that helps.

            You can Google Fu...if she gave you a phone number, google it w/ area code. Millers that work with a bunch of breeds are pretty slick about setting up individual websites and email addresses, but it costs $ to link a different phone # with each one. So, if you google the phone #, and they used it with any other pet ads, it might pull them up and give you a broader picture of who you are dealing with.
             
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            • Gadzukz

              GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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              Thanks monchat, so far it has only been email, no numbers, but if she does, thats good info. Thanks
               
            • Fester

              FesterSenior Lairian Senior Lairian

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              My 2 cents:

              The fee is too low to offset costs of proper care or to give the 'breeder' any assurance of a good home.

              The housing appears such that the cats may be un-socialized (think barn cats).

              There are enough doubts that unless there was extraordinary evidence to the contrary you may make the assumption that this is a miller.

              As much as it tears my heart, the only solution to millers is don't enable them at all -- don't buy, don't accept an animal from them.
              Once SPCA has taken the animals, then help SPCA.

              The saddest part is 'but I can save that kitten!' but by doing so, you allow the miller to produce many more kittens than you could hope to be saved.

              The decision a person has to make is whether they want to save a few kittens at the cost of (maybe) hundreds, or if they want to save many kitten but quite likely doom that cute kitten they saw in person.

              Not an easy decision.
               
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              • AthenaAura

                AthenaAuraLairian

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                I am holding my breath for an update.
                I wouldn't communicate any further without a phone number and an appointment set to do an in home visit.
                 
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                • Jinxlover

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                  If they were a mill they would not be charging only 20-50 dollars for kittens there's no money in that.. Could they just be the kind of people that just don't know any better?

                  Millers want money that's why they do it. Not to sell kittens for 20 bucks. Those moms and kittens don't look good though. I would be taking them all if it was me..But that's just my .02....

                  I agree the aspca will do nothing if they have food water and shelter.
                   
                • Bella07

                  Bella07Banned

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                  :Cry::Cry::Cry:
                  Those poor babies!
                  Honestly, if I were you, I would not be getting one of the kittens. Too many red flags, I bet the kittens are sick as well, and if you do bring one home, it may just may lead to heartbreak in the end. But, I do see that others say they would bring them home.
                  It's all up to you, and what feels right to you in the end!

                  Her not even wanting to meet at her house, and just somewhere, is a really really bad sign. True, $50 isn't money......but, from that cage, it looks like this wasn't just "one accidental" litter. I really wish all of these cats could just be taken out of that home.......

                  Good Luck in making your decision. I know it's a hard one!
                   
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                  • Gadzukz

                    GadzukzV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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                    I Sent this email

                    Good to know she will be ok! Thanks for the reply, Would there be an adoption fee for Goldie with the babies?Is this their first litters? Do you breed pure sphynx also? Have the babies had any shots? I can't wait to meet them all.

                    I got this back

                    At this point we are keeping Goldi. Naula would miss her greatly. I also would like to find a home for her in which she is the only kitty in the home. Right now she is the bottom of the hen pecking order and I think she would do better in a place that she is the center of attention. I don't have a male sphynx so I only get half sphynxes. I would like one day to have a breeding pair. The babies will need their shots when you get them. My goal is to have lower allergy kittens so that people who might not otherwise afford them to be able to get one. I haven't really made anything off them. I am just hoping to get enough to cover shot and vet bill for the mothers and our other two kitties.
                     
                  • TanyaT

                    TanyaTV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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                    Hmmm Seems odd that she is now changing her mind. I would just pass on these, This whole thing is just too much... Those poor babies!!
                     
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                    • Mews2much

                      Mews2muchV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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                      Sounds fishy to me.
                      She is a byb.
                      She says she is breding half sphynx.




                       
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                      • lemmysmommy

                        lemmysmommySenior Lairian Senior Lairian

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                        This situation is sooo sad!! I am angry with the pictures that she sent to you!!:Angry:
                         
                      • sphynxlover

                        sphynxloverLairian

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                        I am so confused. She said the kittens are 1/2 Sphynx...How? The mothers are clearly not Sphynx. They just look like cats with mange to me. And if she doesn't have a male Sphynx... Even if the mother cat was a Sphynx & dad was coated, the kittens would all be fully coated. These are my F1 kittens. F1s carry the hairless gene, but are NEVER hairless at all. They need to get the hairless gene from mom AND dad in order to be hairless at all. These kittens look very sick & that woman is a flat out liar. Please do not bring those kittens home & let us know if you find any info on her.[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
                         
                        Last edited: Apr 26, 2010