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Ideas

cchloerun

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Ok, so tell me if this is dumb! I was thinking of bake sales and car washes for HCM (obviously impossible with how far apart most of us are) but figured we could all brainstorm! Any ideas?
 

cchloerun

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Totally kitty tees! It's so hard to find ones that fit right though- most of the shirts out there are for dogs and they too wide between the arm holes and usually not long enough! I wish I had sewing abilities! :Smile:
 

ypvsypvs

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I think that any HCM research support is very good and hopefully sooner or later it will be a problem that is gone.
However...
The best way to get this problem under control is to get the breeding under control. I can't believe how unregulated the breeders can operate over there.
The organisations that gives out official documents for cats need to have much harder rules for doing so.
Sure it is nice to have as few interferances as possible and just fix the problems that arises but without a controlled breeding more and more bad genes will poison the lines and in the end a very large portion of the kittens will have to get these new fixes not to speak about the deceases that can't be cured at all. Maybe HCM will be one of them.

Organise with interest groups for other breeds and put hard pressure on your organisations to regulate and control better. Other countries have gotten this problem under very good control this way.

Now HCM needs money for research as well ofc, I'm just saying that it seems that everyone (most) just accept that the situation is like it is and can't be changed but that is far from true.
With a list of rules to be followed to get official papers for a kitten breeders will have to comply or they can't get any money for their cats, far from what they need to continiue at least.

That's my idea and one I know works since it's been done.

I do wanna see a cure for HCM as well though.
 

Gizzymom

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I think that any HCM research support is very good and hopefully sooner or later it will be a problem that is gone.
However...
The best way to get this problem under control is to get the breeding under control. I can't believe how unregulated the breeders can operate over there.
The organisations that gives out official documents for cats need to have much harder rules for doing so.
Sure it is nice to have as few interferances as possible and just fix the problems that arises but without a controlled breeding more and more bad genes will poison the lines and in the end a very large portion of the kittens will have to get these new fixes not to speak about the deceases that can't be cured at all. Maybe HCM will be one of them.

Organise with interest groups for other breeds and put hard pressure on your organisations to regulate and control better. Other countries have gotten this problem under very good control this way.

Now HCM needs money for research as well ofc, I'm just saying that it seems that everyone (most) just accept that the situation is like it is and can't be changed but that is far from true.
With a list of rules to be followed to get official papers for a kitten breeders will have to comply or they can't get any money for their cats, far from what they need to continiue at least.

That's my idea and one I know works since it's been done.

I do wanna see a cure for HCM as well though.

Would LOVE to hear from an American who is knowledgeable about politics / breeder regulations. As far as I know the US Govt has NO involvement in breeding regulations. And besides the TICA and the CFA, who has any control over breeding sphynxes??

I am SO curious...:Question:
 

ypvsypvs

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Would LOVE to hear from an American who is knowledgeable about politics / breeder regulations. As far as I know the US Govt has NO involvement in breeding regulations. And besides the TICA and the CFA, who has any control over breeding sphynxes??

I am SO curious...:Question:

Just to clarify. Goverment have no control over breeding here either more than through quite hard animal rights laws etc. It's the federation (your TICA/CFA) that has and it has a very rigourus system of rules etc.
A breeder need to comply with all of those to get a "S*" before their cattery name and to get papers for their kittens.
People would never buy a pure bred from a cattery without authorisation because it will be demed a "house cat" no matter how pure bred it is and no papers will be issued for it. No matter if it would be a show quality cat it can't be sold for more than a very small amount of money.

Deceases need cures but the ultimate way of getting problems with deceases under control is to control the breeding itself.
 

Gullivers Keeper

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Just to clarify. Goverment have no control over breeding here either more than through quite hard animal rights laws etc. It's the federation (your TICA/CFA) that has and it has a very rigourus system of rules etc.
A breeder need to comply with all of those to get a "S*" before their cattery name and to get papers for their kittens.
People would never buy a pure bred from a cattery without authorisation because it will be demed a "house cat" no matter how pure bred it is and no papers will be issued for it. No matter if it would be a show quality cat it can't be sold for more than a very small amount of money.

Deceases need cures but the ultimate way of getting problems with deceases under control is to control the breeding itself.

This is how is should be, the lines should be researched before breeding is even allowed (for kittens with papers) and anyone who breeds without all the research into the lines and proper scans etc, just does not get papers for their kittens. This will not stop back yard breeders, but you know if you spent the $ on a cat with papers all the proper channels have been taken. This will not eradicate HCM but it sure will but a leash on it.
 

Gizzymom

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This is how is should be, the lines should be researched before breeding is even allowed (for kittens with papers) and anyone who breeds without all the research into the lines and proper scans etc, just does not get papers for their kittens. This will not stop back yard breeders, but you know if you spent the $ on a cat with papers all the proper channels have been taken. This will not eradicate HCM but it sure will but a leash on it.

So does TICA or CFA require the lines, scan results, blood type, etc. for registering? If not, does anyone know why it is so different here than in Europe?:Question:
 

Bella07

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So does TICA or CFA require the lines, scan results, blood type, etc. for registering? If not, does anyone know why it is so different here than in Europe?:Question:

Great question!

HCM is one of the things that w0rries me the most about bringing home a kitten....finding the right breeder, with the right lines. The thought of any of my kitties having HCM terrifies me...:Sweat:
 

susi794

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Me too, Bella! While I was waiting to take my cats for their scans, I worried what I would do--how would I possibly take it if one or, God forbid, all of them had it....that goodness we were HCM clear, at least for this year. Will go through the same thing next year, I'm sure....I feel so sorry for anyone that has to deal with this rotten disease.
 

Gizzymom

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Me too, Bella! While I was waiting to take my cats for their scans, I worried what I would do--how would I possibly take it if one or, God forbid, all of them had it....that goodness we were HCM clear, at least for this year. Will go through the same thing next year, I'm sure....I feel so sorry for anyone that has to deal with this rotten disease.

Do you just get your breeders scanned? Or pets as well? Gizmo is a very healthy boy who gets check ups every year (this year included the full blood panel)... but is it a good idea to have a pet scanned??
 

sphynxie

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Kitty tees!!!!!!! :ThumbsUp:

I totally agree- kitty tees! Put a catchy logo on the tee like:
-"I've Been Scanned" set with a red heart around the words
- "HCM Free" with a heart
These beautiful cats get attention whenever they're out, so what better way to get the message out there then on the cats themselves.
 

susi794

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Do you just get your breeders scanned? Or pets as well? Gizmo is a very healthy boy who gets check ups every year (this year included the full blood panel)... but is it a good idea to have a pet scanned??

It is a good idea to have everyone scanned, but there are different schools of thought on it--some sources say only if your cat is symptomatic. I prefer to scan. But I am fortunate that near Detroit there is a cardiologist that does scans for $95 a cat--which is a great price, so it's a little more affordable than some of the fees I've heard from others around.
 

Mews2much

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I am going to scan mine at the TICA show the end of this month.
I am trying to get my dad to loan me the money to scan Cleo and Wrinkles.
I also am scared of the results.




I
 

susi794

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Hey, Chanel--you could have note cards with your HCM logo printed on them and sell them in little affordable packages of 8 or 10. Something relatively inexpensive like that might allow more folks to buy things to support the cause. Just an idea.... Would also work for all kinds of cats, so that would broaden the appeal and the customer base.
 

Gizzymom

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It is a good idea to have everyone scanned, but there are different schools of thought on it--some sources say only if your cat is symptomatic. I prefer to scan. But I am fortunate that near Detroit there is a cardiologist that does scans for $95 a cat--which is a great price, so it's a little more affordable than some of the fees I've heard from others around.

Does the cardiologist matter for the scan?? I know that I would research a cardiologist for myself and try to find the best one... but there are very few near by... I would rather not have to travel all over creation just for the scan. If Gizzy was sick, I would find the best out there for his condition... but for just a scan, does it matter?

So in other words, can a scan be read wrong ??
 

Gizzymom

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I am going to scan mine at the TICA show the end of this month.
I am trying to get my dad to loan me the money to scan Cleo and Wrinkles.
I also am scared of the results.




I

Better to know and treat than have your baby be a ticking time bomb... In my opinion. :Laugh:
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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TICA and CFA are registries. They are that and nothing else. They are not government agencies- they are not law enforcers. TICA and CFA are there to register our cats and host our cat shows- not to slap breeders on the wrists.

Do other countries do things differently? Sure. Germany, for one, has a pretty darn strict German Shepherd Dog registry- at least, their requirements to breed are pretty strict. And good for them! Does that make GSD breeders across the board in the US horrible? Hardly.

Is it wonderful that a specific country or organization requires health testing? Well, on one hand- yes. On the other hand- no. It is foolish to believe a yearly test will wipe out HCM and actually- YES, we DO NEED MORE RESEARCH. Maine Coons- you can DNA test for HCM, but cats who have tested clear still develop HCM. So how does this fit into the yearly scanning for registries? That just shows that scanning yearly isn't really the answer. We need more research and money put into HCM. If we can pinpoint the actual cause, locate the DNA marker for ALL HCM (which is the problem with Maine Coons- there must be something missing) and find out a better way to treat HCM- that's how we will help out cats.

Look at what Susi just posted- she has done her scans for the year and yet, like any other Sphynx breeder, she is biting her nails worried about next year. The scans are not enough.

Also, from the last few posts about the lack of American regulations when it comes to breeding- you might assume that HCM does not exist in European lines. You would be very very wrong to make that assumption. Very, very wrong. It does exist and many people have imported cats only to lose them down the road to HCM.

If anyone is that concerned that TICA or CFA is not running their ships properly- you have every right to take the time and money to become actively involved and eventually man that ship yourself. Instead of complaining about the registries, which do their job- register cats- you can take action and become actively involved in the show community as well as the registries. They have presidents and vice presidents, etc... They are ordinary people just like you and me.

Ah, and to sum it up- TICA is international so even Europeans can be involved with it and help change the rules if they don't like them.
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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PS- and yes, scan your pets! I know that seems contrary to say scanning isn't enough, but then to tell you to spend $300 to scan your pets- but too many people think only breeders need to be concerned with HCM. The truth is- even if all of your breeders' cats were scanned and three generations before that, HCM is sneaky and insidious and unfair. It still happens. If you scan and everything is perfect- no harm, no foul. If you scan and there is an issue- you can start your baby on meds and hopefully get things under control. If you hold your breath and just pray and don't scan- you may be playing a game with very very bad odds because once your kitty exhibits HCM symptoms, it is often too late to get them under control.
 

havingalook

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Do you just get your breeders scanned? Or pets as well? Gizmo is a very healthy boy who gets check ups every year (this year included the full blood panel)... but is it a good idea to have a pet scanned??

Definitely a good idea to get him scanned. HCM doesn't just affect breeders it affects pets too, if you scan him you can keep on top of it if, god forbid, he developed HCM.
 

marlene

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Does the cardiologist matter for the scan?? I know that I would research a cardiologist for myself and try to find the best one... but there are very few near by... I would rather not have to travel all over creation just for the scan. If Gizzy was sick, I would find the best out there for his condition... but for just a scan, does it matter?

So in other words, can a scan be read wrong ??

Gizzymom, the accuracy of a scan depends upon the skill of the technician performing it and the skill of the person interpreting it. A normal vet has good basic interpretive skills but they don't have the advanced training that allows them to make accurate subtle measurements of the heart walls, papillary muscles, or ejection fractions. So yes, a scan can easily be read wrong, which is why a veterinary cardiologist is the best choice for scanning.
 

Gullivers Keeper

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TICA and CFA are registries. They are that and nothing else. They are not government agencies- they are not law enforcers. TICA and CFA are there to register our cats and host our cat shows- not to slap breeders on the wrists.

Do other countries do things differently? Sure. Germany, for one, has a pretty darn strict German Shepherd Dog registry- at least, their requirements to breed are pretty strict. And good for them! Does that make GSD breeders across the board in the US horrible? Hardly.

Is it wonderful that a specific country or organization requires health testing? Well, on one hand- yes. On the other hand- no. It is foolish to believe a yearly test will wipe out HCM and actually- YES, we DO NEED MORE RESEARCH. Maine Coons- you can DNA test for HCM, but cats who have tested clear still develop HCM. So how does this fit into the yearly scanning for registries? That just shows that scanning yearly isn't really the answer. We need more research and money put into HCM. If we can pinpoint the actual cause, locate the DNA marker for ALL HCM (which is the problem with Maine Coons- there must be something missing) and find out a better way to treat HCM- that's how we will help out cats.

Look at what Susi just posted- she has done her scans for the year and yet, like any other Sphynx breeder, she is biting her nails worried about next year. The scans are not enough.

Also, from the last few posts about the lack of American regulations when it comes to breeding- you might assume that HCM does not exist in European lines. You would be very very wrong to make that assumption. Very, very wrong. It does exist and many people have imported cats only to lose them down the road to HCM.

If anyone is that concerned that TICA or CFA is not running their ships properly- you have every right to take the time and money to become actively involved and eventually man that ship yourself. Instead of complaining about the registries, which do their job- register cats- you can take action and become actively involved in the show community as well as the registries. They have presidents and vice presidents, etc... They are ordinary people just like you and me.

Ah, and to sum it up- TICA is international so even Europeans can be involved with it and help change the rules if they don't like them.

You're right I guess they are just a registry, but with all the information they have maybe they could do more with it? I just assumed they looked further into the cats they register, being a new purebred cat owner. They are the only one's with the power to register (or not) cats. I don't believe anyone thinks that with stricter rules HCM would disappear, but it would help if everyone had to scan in order to register. It makes it sound like they are just there to find the pretty kitties on the outside with no concern for the insides, which I don't believe is true. I mean if you want to breed you should be scanning your cats yearly anyway, and this is not a guarantee, but it will help pinpoint where is it coming from, and lengthen the cats life if it is found early. Finding HCM and other illnesses is not to "slap breeders on the wrist" I think it is to make more responsible breeders. If you are breeding and your cats are scanned and blood tested for illnesses, if something does happen with your kittens you know you did the best you could.

I don't show cat's, but I do have a cat with HCM who's parents were scanned, so I know there are no HCM free cats. I do think if I had looked further into my cat's lines I would have found HCM and at least been aware of what to expect. I didn't know any better at the time. I had a wonderful breeder who has been here for me, not everyone is as lucky. I'm also pretty sure she would have appreciated having all the HCM information on her cat before she had to have the heartache of breeding a cat that produced kittens with HCM and having to deal with the people she sold those kittens to.

Yes it is our responsibility as cat owners or breeders to investigate before we breed or buy, but with associations that can get this information or deny membership, I guess I just wish they would consider doing it.
 

Gullivers Keeper

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Never mind if they made the cats get scanned and blood tested then stupid people would just try to sue them if they got an unhealty kitten even though we all know there are no guarantees. Maybe it is a bad idea for them to take responsibility on.
 
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