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Kidney biopsy

MaxisMum

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Hello everyone,

Does anyone ever had a kidney biopsy done on a sphynx? I’m a bit anxious about the risks.

My little Maximus is 9 months old and has protein in the urine (higher than normal percentage), high phosphorus, transparent urine.
We went to the vet 2 months ago to get castrated and the results from the blood sample pre-op were bad, showing renal problems. He’s so young to have kidney problems! My previous sphynx died of kidney failure at 14.

We went through lots of blood, urine tests, x-ray & ultrasound. The internal medicine specialist changed his diet to senior food (less protein, Royal Canin) (so against my values of good food especially for a kitten) but his renal values got better (creatinine, SDMA for the ones who have gone through renal failure in old cats) the proteins remain high.

She is proposing to do a biopsy to find the exact cause of the proteinia, it could be caused by a dozen different things with different medication/management, suspecting malformation in tissues of kidney.

Has anyone gone through this type of sickness in a young cat? I’m afraid the biopsy could do damages in the kidney. Not sure it’s worth it if it hurts him.
Thank you for your help!
I must add that he's very happy, playful, eating well, no symptoms...yet. I just want to do the best for him to have a long life.
A worried mummy.
 

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Yoda mom

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@MaxisMum Awhhh positve vibes sent !
Hopeful members with more experience than I have will chime
For peace of mind perhaps a second opinion fresh set of eyes ?
Taking a copy of all his t3st results and chart notes with you ?

Do they recommend waiting to see if the food helps for a certain length of time before a biopsy ?
Glad his renal values are improving .. does specialist think the rest of values will have a chance to return to normal range with the change of food ?

Do you have a copy of the tests -the one that shows the bar graph in 3 parts for each thing tested ..? I always look at the bar graph chart and get a copy for my record

***A few times my Pets tests were “high””” on paper summary
but .... the bar graph chart shows a smidge over normal range .

My rehomed dog ph amd protein I was told were a little high amd vet suggested it could have been the food he was on .. she was not overly concerned amd just told me to change food .
each furkid amd nakid are different but wanted to share to give you some positives, !
It’s so hard when we lose one of our nakids amd our newbies present with some issues .
(((hugs))) and positive vibes

Following closely for updates (((((Hugs)))’
Head smooches to Maximus

** If you do biopsy , call ahead and make sure NO Ketamine anesthesia !
It can have a rebound effect on the heart.
Many vets use propofol amd Isoflurane

Not sure if it’s the same vet as who did his neuter so wanted to share NO Ketamine
 
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Sheldon13

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I don’t have experience with cats and kidney biopsies, but in people the sample is really really tiny. The only major risk is infection, but that’s with any surgery. Ask your vet how big the biopsy sample would be.


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Toa and Ross

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Sending positive vibes. Hope memberswith experience on this willchime in!
 

MaxisMum

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I don’t have experience with cats and kidney biopsies, but in people the sample is really really tiny. The only major risk is infection, but that’s with any surgery. Ask your vet how big the biopsy sample would be.


That was one reassurance from yesterday, she showed me the needle size they do it with and it's minuscule :) Pfff, I imagined them taking a steak out of my baby (kidding of course, kinda).
 

MaxisMum

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@MaxisMum Awhhh positve vibes sent !
Hopeful members with more experience than I have will chime
For peace of mind perhaps a second opinion fresh set of eyes ?
Taking a copy of all his t3st results and chart notes with you ?

Do they recommend waiting to see if the food helps for a certain length of time before a biopsy ?
Glad his renal values are improving .. does specialist think the rest of values will have a chance to return to normal range with the change of food ?

Do you have a copy of the tests -the one that shows the bar graph in 3 parts for each thing tested ..? I always look at the bar graph chart and get a copy for my record

***A few times my Pets tests were “high””” on paper summary
but .... the bar graph chart shows a smidge over normal range .

My rehomed dog ph amd protein I was told were a little high amd vet suggested it could have been the food he was on .. she was not overly concerned amd just told me to change food .
each furkid amd nakid are different but wanted to share to give you some positives, !
It’s so hard when we lose one of our nakids amd our newbies present with some issues .
(((hugs))) and positive vibes

Following closely for updates (((((Hugs)))’
Head smooches to Maximus

** If you do biopsy , call ahead and make sure NO Ketamine anesthesia !
It can have a rebound effect on the heart.
Many vets use propofol amd Isoflurane

Not sure if it’s the same vet as who did his neuter so wanted to share NO Ketamine
You're so right YodaMum, the results were barely out of normal range for some items (except for the first test) so I'm less worried now, especially with the new food clearly helping.
But this is very new for me. I've had experience with renal problems in an older cat; this seems so different. My vet was joking saying I got the lottery ticket of rare symptoms. Not uncommon but rare in a 9 months old kitten.
 

MaxisMum

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Update after vet visit yesterday. Way too many details but for those curious :)

There's continuous high protein in the urine (normal is 0.2, abnormal is 0.2-0.4, Maximus is 0.6 in 2 tests)
The vet is suggesting to do the biopsy to find the exact cause.
It's going to cost about $2500. (I'm already at $3900 on my insurance out of $5K limit for the year)

I have to send the cat to a specialized hospital 1h30 away from my place so he's supervised post-op in case of a bleeding or kidney shutdown. (I don't have a car so it's going to be a nightmare with logistics (friend or ambulance, no visit)

It costs so much because it needs to be done by a radiologist under ultrasound and the sample is going to Ohio State University to be analyzed (apparently they're the only one doing it ($800 just for the report).

So...I'm wondering if I'm not going to wait for my insurance to renew in November, it's in 6 months... Or...I eat pasta for a while and I do it immediately...dilemma.

All this with the cat being super healthy right now, eating, playing, cuddling...it's just insidious...I do nothing and he dies in a couple of years or I treat properly and he lives for 10 years. (or he dies of something before, stress and sarcasm :).

Thank you for reading...really not sure what I'll do.
 

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Sheldon13

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First of all-brilliant that you have insurance. I wish I could convince more people to get it for their pet. If they get really sick on you even once it pays for itself.

I wouldn’t wait the 6 months, personally. Kidney disease can be aggressive and take your baby quickly before you know it. I would be eating Ramen for a while.


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MaxisMum

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First of all-brilliant that you have insurance. I wish I could convince more people to get it for their pet. If they get really sick on you even once it pays for itself.

I wouldn’t wait the 6 months, personally. Kidney disease can be aggressive and take your baby quickly before you know it. I would be eating Ramen for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I lost my first sphynx to kidney disease $8K later no insurance, lesson learned, I've insured both my boys. Elliott is 2 and so far super healthy :) but I know we'll need a dental one of these days and as he gets older he might need it.
I insured Maximus in Nov. and was so surprised to have to use it in March! So relieved not to have to think $ to get blood test, urine test, X-rays, ultra-sound, internal medicine specialist.

I'm still undecided about the biopsy, we have a full check up in a month and I'll decide then. You're so right kidney disease can be aggressive, it's insiduous, you don't see any symptoms and bam it's too late.
 

Yoda mom

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@MaxisMum , keeping all paws crossed for next months follow up.... stay positve ... a lot can improve in a month ... is he on a specialized food ?
I had a Bengal whose numbers were off the charts ... they thought he had a mass on ultrasound .. thst turned out to be a birth defect anomaly not s mass ..
My vet said ... only you... i was at such a loss want do to... I had a long chat with my vet ...

We put him on a conservative treatment medication , change of diet ... he bounced back amd lived to 18 . We never knew the cause or even a definitive diagnosis .. everthing was idiopathic ..

Personally, and by no means need to .... but with the extensive logistics costs etc toynare lookojf st with the biopsy .... I would consider a second opinion ... asking if the .2 over the normal range
Is indicative of a biopsy or alternate treatment plan .. I have dealt with several vets over the years and they can differ in opinion ... a fresh set of eyes second opinion before leaping can bring peace of mind of sent dorectiom to take for your baby ...

I can’t imagine how hard all this is having walked that road before...
Hugs and lair prayers tounwill get improvement by next months follow up.
He is acting himself eating playing etc so that is a big positive !

There was a site years ago I used with my boy with a chart column om the left of the page on foods I used to shop with for kidney issues ..

Will check and see if it’s still available and send it to you ..
I used it as As a guide referemce it had a lot of good info that helped me
Hesd smooches to your boys ...
Following closely for updates

Ps ... found the site I used years ago ..
Will PM
 
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Yoda mom

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@MaxisMum i am curious what food has been eating ? And is it super high in protein ? Causing the elevated protein value in bloodwork?
 

MaxisMum

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Maximus was on high protein food, can & dry food (wellness & Origen) so after a month of testing we changed to a Royal Canin senior with less protein and the renal values got better. But the proteins are still going through his urine.

The specialist wanted to see a few results before suggesting the renal food that would suit him. She put him on Purina NF pre-renal, cans & dry. (supposed to be the less harmful for a growing kitten, OMG when I saw the ingredients, I need to trust the vet because I would never feed my cat this if I didn't have to). There's less protein (better quality protein they say, hum) and very low phosphorus, the omega 3 shouldn't hurt.
We had to order it from my vet as they don't carry it in their "usual" assortment. We should get it on Tuesday and I'll do the transition.

That's another headache...2 sphynx, one healthy, one sick, 2 different foods...I had changed both cats dry to senior and they took to Royal Canin like kids to McDonald. But I can't feed my healthy one the renal food long term.

So another expense, I bought a SureFeed Microchip Pet Feeder ! My regular vet is also going to lend me one that he had for one of his cats and no longer use so both cats have their separate food. They're pretty easy going so I hope they'll eat from the feeder without problems.

Next steps: check blood pressure and blood values on Thursday following one week on Semintra and castration a week after...we'll see for the biopsy.

Thanks for the tip on felinecrf.org, this website is a goldmine on information, so well made, so helpful to understand the medical terms from the vet. I was on it all the time when my Ari was sick a few years back. It's was a bit traumatic to go back to find information on proteinia for Maximus but it helped.

Thank you very much for the comments, it helps. I'll keep you up to date in what's going on...
 

Condo commando

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I had a cat with kidney disease. One day we did an x-ray for something unrelated and it showed one of her kidneys was shrunken. The vet said she was only functioning with one kidney but that other kidney was doing such a great job she hadn't run into any kidney problems.

Eventually she did develop kidney disease in the one good kidney but it was a lot later. I learned to manage it by giving her daily sub Q fluid. I started out buying the fluid and needles at the vet but then I discovered I could buy them online for less money. Just FYI.

Tanya's felinecrf.org website was my go-to for information. I can't say enough how valuable of a resource it was. Whoever Tanya is may God bless her for posting all this information for everyone else.

I don't recall high protein ever being an issue. I remember high calcium being a problem; it made her nauseous which made her not want to eat. You may want to find if high protein can cause nausea and lack of appetite because it's bad enough they are sick, you don't want to be syringe feeding too.

When it comes to food, I don't even understand how they can sell renal diets consisting of dry kibble. If you can afford canned food for Maximus that is the way to go. My vet at that time wanted to sell me one of the Rx renal diets, but I researched it and ended up buying a regular food brand that I liked better. Just a thought.

Now for the big question - on one hand doing the procedure now would give you the most options and best outcomes. But you know this. However, specialist vets are expensive as anything and money is a legit issue. You have to do what you feel comfortable with. Last thought - since you do have some money left on this year's insurance, could you go to a different clinic that charge less? In the USA, animal hospitals associated with veterinary schools offer services for less. This is how they get people to take their pets, which is how new vets can be taught. You cat would be seen by both a veterinary student as well as a supervising fully certified and licensed professor of vet medicine. If you live near a veterinary college this might be worth it financially.

Hope this helps.
 

Yoda mom

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@MaxisMum positive vibes continue ...
I imagine it can take a few weeks for improving results ... seeing improvement in numbers already is a good sign...

I know what you means about the ingredients of the vet sold foods ....I did it with my boy too ... cringed but it worked .... when he was stable ... I used the Tanya’s guide I sent you to go cat food shopping for foods with very very similar % in it even by the same brand ...
I doenlosded it to my phone screen

most recently did the same about 5 years ago with an adoptee with a UTI treated by the vet and he refused the c/d foods . I was working around the clock and no way was my other half was going to raw feeding so stuck with vet or store bought .

Nice of your vet to lend you the feeder ...
thank you for the link to the microchip feeder .helppful to all of us

All paws crossed for positive updates ! Head smooches !
 

Sheldon13

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I had a cat with kidney disease. One day we did an x-ray for something unrelated and it showed one of her kidneys was shrunken. The vet said she was only functioning with one kidney but that other kidney was doing such a great job she hadn't run into any kidney problems.

Eventually she did develop kidney disease in the one good kidney but it was a lot later. I learned to manage it by giving her daily sub Q fluid. I started out buying the fluid and needles at the vet but then I discovered I could buy them online for less money. Just FYI.

Tanya's felinecrf.org website was my go-to for information. I can't say enough how valuable of a resource it was. Whoever Tanya is may God bless her for posting all this information for everyone else.

I don't recall high protein ever being an issue. I remember high calcium being a problem; it made her nauseous which made her not want to eat. You may want to find if high protein can cause nausea and lack of appetite because it's bad enough they are sick, you don't want to be syringe feeding too.

When it comes to food, I don't even understand how they can sell renal diets consisting of dry kibble. If you can afford canned food for Maximus that is the way to go. My vet at that time wanted to sell me one of the Rx renal diets, but I researched it and ended up buying a regular food brand that I liked better. Just a thought.

Now for the big question - on one hand doing the procedure now would give you the most options and best outcomes. But you know this. However, specialist vets are expensive as anything and money is a legit issue. You have to do what you feel comfortable with. Last thought - since you do have some money left on this year's insurance, could you go to a different clinic that charge less? In the USA, animal hospitals associated with veterinary schools offer services for less. This is how they get people to take their pets, which is how new vets can be taught. You cat would be seen by both a veterinary student as well as a supervising fully certified and licensed professor of vet medicine. If you live near a veterinary college this might be worth it financially.

Hope this helps.
Where do you get the subq fluids? I don’t need any now but it would be nice to have on hand for emergencies. (I’m a nurse btw)


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Condo commando

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Where do you get the subq fluids? I don’t need any now but it would be nice to have on hand for emergencies. (I’m a nurse btw)


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It's been like 6 years so I can't even remember the name of the place. It was small pet med business online that had the best prices. But the large ones sell it too. Also needles. The ones they sell you at the vet have a tiny hole and it takes forever and the cat wants to get away; you can buy some online that have a wider opening (the thickness is the same because they make the metal thinner). Cost more but worth it.
 

Yoda mom

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@Sheldon13 , my vet sold me the bag of subQ fluid - gave me the line and extra needles ... showed me how to use it ... was actually very easy amd kitty was relaxed on the towel o the bathroom counter ..
I did it at home for my moms kitty since she was too stressed fo the vet visit trip for fluids constantly ..
buying the whole bag was not expensive , was easy to administer with less stress to my mom amd kitty
 
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