Welcome to Sphynxlair! Connect with Sphynx owners & enthusiasts around the world!

looking for answers

Debbie

Lairian
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11
Points
0
Hi everyone, I joined this forum a few months back when I started looking for my first sphynx. I gathered a lot of information from some of you and started my quest. after 1 month I brought my baby home. I named him Eddie and fell in love so quickly.
The reason I am here is because my Eddie is now almost 10 months old and I am being told he has HCM. I am a nurse so I know about this. My problem is that the breeder did scan and showed me the HCM data base she had cats listed and HCM clear. Now that I look back and have done days of research I see that she has 6 dams and 5 sires on her website all being bread but when I look at the HCM data base only 3 of her cats have been scanned? This led me to look at other catteries and I have found most of the same.
I know that this will not help my dear Eddie now, honestly if they all had been scanned I am not sure it would help I am just trying to find our why any one would give a new owner that false hope.
I am looking for anyone who wishes to share their experience with HCM.
 

Melonie

Senior Lairian
Senior Lairian
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
702
Points
88
My cat just got diagnosed with hcm on friday, he is a little over one. Sometimes hcm just pops up even if the parents are clear. They need to find its genetic marker. That would make life easier!
 

ilovemysphynx

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
4,988
Points
271
Hi Debbie thanks for sharing your story I hope you find some answers.
 

MissMySphynxBoys

Gold Lairian
Notable Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,509
Points
323
I'm sorry to hear about Eddie. It sounds as if you did all the right things in your research. There are no guarentees with HCM. Due to the nature of the disease it can pop up in a line that was previously deemed 'clear'. I hope you find the help and support you need here at Sphynx Lair.
 

kiennasmom

V.I.P Lairian
V.I.P Lairian
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,228
Points
0
Hi Debbie, Welcome to the Lair! I'm so sorry to hear about Eddie. I've lost 2 sphynx previously to HCM and currently 1 of my 2 babies has it. The "healthy" cat has the same dad as the HCM+ cat, so I reallllly have my fingers crossed that he doesn't develop it too. It's such a scary disease because you can scan negative for years on end and then it just pops up. If you look up Winn Feline Foundation, they do HCM research, both in general & sphynx breed specific. There is a lot of good info out there. I just try to remind myself that first off, they don't know they're sick and secondly, cherish every moment that you have with them.
 

Gullivers Keeper

Senior Lairian
Senior Lairian
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
495
Points
123
I'm so sorry! I just found out 9/16/10 that my 16 month old Gulliver has HCM... It's so heartbreaking. My breeder scanned also, but it's so hard because it does not always show, sometimes for generations. All we can do is take care of our babies and keep being diligent that everyone scans, and if their cats do scan positive they must take them out of breeding programs. Till then all we can do is support each other and love our kittys!!!
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
My cat just got diagnosed with hcm on friday, he is a little over one. Sometimes hcm just pops up even if the parents are clear. They need to find its genetic marker. That would make life easier!
A genetic marker will not be the solution to HCM as some might think, it will be an additional tool, which will be helpful in eliminating this disease, but it will not be a "miracle cure" for weaning it out of the breed. There are over 600 genetic markers for HCM in humans. To believe there will be ONE and ONLY ONE genetic marker for HCM in sphynx is illogical. Some sphynx have already proven to carry the genetic marker for HCM that main coons express, therefore there is at the very very least 2 markers for sphynx. We will still have to scan diligently prior to breedings, and use the genetic marker (once one has been found) as an additional tool in identifying the disease in breeding cats.

I am dealing with severe heart murmurs and HCM in my pet sphynx. I know how heart breaking it is to hear that diagnoses. Debbie, was your Eddie diagnosed via an echocardiogram? 10 months is displaying a very early onset HCM. Even if the parents and grand parents and great grand parents scan clear for 5 or 6 or 7 years, there is still no gaurantee offspring or those cats in question will not develop the disease at some point due to the variable expression of the disease. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Eddie and you will find a lot of support here, I have never known a more caring bunch of people as you find here at Sphynx Lair.
On a side note, not all breeders submit scans to the HCM database. So if a cat's scan is not there, it is not neccesarily they have not been scanned, or are positive. I do believe the sharing of knowledge is paramount in tackling this monster but not everyone is comfortable with posting sometimes.
 

Debbie

Lairian
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11
Points
0
Thank you to those of you who have shared some light on this. I understand that all breeders do not register in the data base but if one does wouldn't they have all their cats listed not just a few? It seems that there are breeders out there that scan a couple here and there so it looks good for them, this is the part that does not sit well for me.
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
Some breeders will also only post negative scans. It is important to post those positive with HCM, so that other breeders are equipped with more information when making decisions about breeding pairs and melding pedigrees.
 

Mews2much

V.I.P Lairian
V.I.P Lairian
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
4,564
Points
0
It is true some breeders hide the pos scans.
There are HCM pos cats in Wrinkles lines.
Sorry your cat has HCM.
It can happen even in the best lines but it is still better to get a kitten from a breeder that scans.
I talked to Dr Lyons from UC Davis at the TICA Annual.
She is really nice to talk to and they have found more info on HCM.
 

Debbie

Lairian
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11
Points
0
You all have been nice. I am enjoying looking at all of your pictures and reading all of your posts.
 

admin

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
23,092
Points
643
A genetic marker will not be the solution to HCM as some might think, it will be an additional tool, which will be helpful in eliminating this disease, but it will not be a "miracle cure" for weaning it out of the breed. There are over 600 genetic markers for HCM in humans. To believe there will be ONE and ONLY ONE genetic marker for HCM in sphynx is illogical. Some sphynx have already proven to carry the genetic marker for HCM that main coons express, therefore there is at the very very least 2 markers for sphynx. We will still have to scan diligently prior to breedings, and use the genetic marker (once one has been found) as an additional tool in identifying the disease in breeding cats.

I am dealing with severe heart murmurs and HCM in my pet sphynx. I know how heart breaking it is to hear that diagnoses. Debbie, was your Eddie diagnosed via an echocardiogram? 10 months is displaying a very early onset HCM. Even if the parents and grand parents and great grand parents scan clear for 5 or 6 or 7 years, there is still no gaurantee offspring or those cats in question will not develop the disease at some point due to the variable expression of the disease. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Eddie and you will find a lot of support here, I have never known a more caring bunch of people as you find here at Sphynx Lair.
On a side note, not all breeders submit scans to the HCM database. So if a cat's scan is not there, it is not neccesarily they have not been scanned, or are positive. I do believe the sharing of knowledge is paramount in tackling this monster but not everyone is comfortable with posting sometimes.
Nothing against you Shauntay, I'm just responding to the end of your post, I think the point that Debbie is making is that many breeders have jumped on the band wagon with their claim of an "HCM free" cattery in order to sell more cats, and have 1 or 2 of their sires or dams tested and have multiple litters with multiple breeds and the other 6,7,8 or 9 cats have never seen the inside of an cardiologist's office but yet they are producing kittens as we speak. If you are a "true" or "honest" breeder and make the "HCM free" cattery claim, then do it all the way! Yes, there are honest breeders who scan "all" of they're breeding cats, and I give them the upmost respect for their "true" claim and their decision as a breeder to scan if that makes them feel more secure selling kittens!

But it just urks me when the oohs and ahhs of who is a "good" or "bad" breeder stirs up this forum and i've yet to see real proof of what actually makes a good breeder or if in fact the accusers have any real evidence that these breeders really are breeding sickly cats. Look, I know there are some really crappy poor hearted breeders out there, but don't pump up the other breeders that make "false" claims. If you are going to honestly recommend a breeder to someone on my site, be sure they are 100% and not just 50%!

It's only fair to the person looking for their new kitten! Sorry, just had to put my 2 cents in. You don't believe me, go to any one of the breeders that someone has recommended here on my site and ask them for proof of every cat they currently breed and if in "fact" every last one is scanned for HCM, I have a feeling you will be severely disappointed in the answer you will receive, if you get an honest answer at all! So before you go recommending on my site, please make sure "you" know what you're talking about!
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
Admin, Im confused in regards to your use of quoting my post.

Nothing against you Shauntay, I'm just responding to the end of your post, I think the point that Debbie is making is that many breeders have jumped on the band wagon with their claim of an "HCM free" cattery in order to sell more cats,
I never mentioned anything about catteries and their claims about HCM free (which is impossible to guarantee...) in my post. I posted about an HCM marker not being a miracle cure for the disease. I also empathized with Debbie.

If you are a "true" or "honest" breeder and make the "HCM free" cattery claim, then do it all the way! Yes, there are honest breeders who scan "all" of they're breeding cats, and I give them the upmost respect for their "true" claim and their decision as a breeder to scan if that makes them feel more secure selling kittens!
I reiterate, NO breeder can claim being HCM free, it can express itself in any pedigree at any time. The point of scanning is to reduce the chances, gain knowledge on the hearts of our breeding cats, and hopefully catching the disease early so the cat can be properly medicated.

I dont know if I am missing something here, I will reread all the posts. I did not see anyone recommending breeders?


You don't believe me, go to any one of the breeders that someone has recommended here on my site and ask them for proof of every cat they currently breed and if in "fact" every last one is scanned for HCM, I have a feeling you will be severely disappointed in the answer you will receive, if you get an honest answer at all!
I may see a lot of situations optimistically, but many of the breeders I was working with in finding a show kitten, had ALL breeding cats scanned, I know this for fact as I was given said scans and I also called the Doctor who performed them.



So before you go recommending on my site, please make sure "you" know what you're talking about!
Is this directed at me? I have not recommended anyone to anything on your site. Please clear up this confusion.
 

admin

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
23,092
Points
643
Shauntay,
This has nothing at all to do with you, I am just agreeing with the end of your post and then adding my feelings about what has been going on around the site and privately with pm's. It has nothing what so ever to do with you sorry if it came across that way.
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
Thank you Admin for clearing that up. Sometimes the intention behind written words are hard to interpret. I`m pretty clueless when it comes to the drama behind scenes, so I had no idea anyone is recommending anything etc
 

admin

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
23,092
Points
643
The post I made is just saying that be sure you are recommending what you are preaching. If you are not giving a truly good recommendation that is fair and not friend based or a friend of a friend then just don't do it unless you are 100% in what you know about that breeder. It's not fair to the person looking or the breeder.
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
Oh I agree Admin! No breeder should mislead anyone, and no sphynx breeder should be breeding cats who have not been scanned negative for HCM. There is no justification for that. Even pyo pre one year old cats, as I posted somewhere else. This disease is so serious and everyone who breeds has a part of the breeds well being as their responsibility. In the ukc, there are some breed groups that require certain tests to be made on a breeding pair or they withhold registration. If you cant afford to scan, you should not breed. There is absolutely NO reason a breeder shouldnt be scanning their cats. With breeders falsely claiming to have all cats scanned, I think this is horrendous. I for one made the mistake of not asking for documentation of scans, and taking the "breeders" word on it. My boys have HCM as a result of my lack of knowledge. I think in that regard, the best we can do is ask for scans! Get the documents in your hands and call the Cardiologist who performed the scan. Their number will be on the letterhead of the scan. Research is our very best friend when it comes to avoiding risks!
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
Debbie, there is a yahoo support group for people dealing with HCM in beloved pets. If you want the link, just pm me. Some cats can live quite fulfilling lives with HCM, my boys are roughly 8 and were diagnosed young. I tell people my little guys heart is too full of love to ever fail him!!
 

ilovemysphynx

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
4,988
Points
271
I think that all my husband is saying is that when it comes to breeding or talking about breeders there is unfortunately usually some not needed drama to go along with it. His reply has nothing to do with any specific post, just a post in general due to several pm's and or emails we have received over the past few weeks regarding new people that have come here and been told not to buy a cat from this one because of this or that when in turn it is because they want them to buy a cat from a friend ect. In turn the person that was going to buy a cat changes their mind because of xy and z and tells the breeder that they did not choose to buy a cat from them because of what the people on sphynxlair this makes our forum look bad.
Also another point is that if a breeder says that they scan all there breeding cats for HCM then they should scan all of there cats and do it every year not just a few cats here and there to have a good selling point. No a scan of every cat cannot prevent a new kitten from ever having HCM but if you say you do it, then they should, and if they did there is no reason every result should not be listed on the data base.
I have looked at some breeders websites and saw some of the stuff they say to try to sell a sphynx and I have laughed very hard the best selling point that I myself have come across is that the sphynx cat is the cleanest cat in the world :LOL:
 

Shauntay

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
292
Points
0
HAH cleanest cat my butt, has any of you seen Beebz?! God I wish I had a black sphynx!

I am constantly on various breeders lists. In regards to some breeders not posting to the database, I know first hand a breeder I work with scans each and every cat each and every year and hosts seminars and scan clinics. I have had these scans in my hands and have spoken to Cardios. She chooses not to post her scans to the HCM database due to theft and fraud of scans by BYBers and Millers. A lot of breeders share the information good or bad, of their scans to the lists, to help other breeders in making decisions with certain cats and pedigrees in their program. It is widely a sharing community. I do feel it is detrimental to ALL breeders reputations when one falsely advertizes all breeding cats are scanned when not all are, but there is nothing worst then a breeder who just plain doesnt scan.

Ive seen sphynx go for more due to being odd eyed...Variant eye color does not make that cat good quality...in fact, it is completely irrelevant to the standard as color has nothing to do with our breed. Heck Little Man has odd eyes, and as far as sphynx go he is oooooogly! ;) He looks like a sickly devon rex and I couldnt live without him!
 

marlene

V.I.P Lairian
V.I.P Lairian
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
1,985
Points
0
I have laughed very hard the best selling point that I myself have come across is that the sphynx cat is the cleanest cat in the world :LOL:
If you had ever spent 4 hours non-stop bathing and grooming a Maine Coon or Persian you'd jump on the "sphynx is the cleanest cat in the world bandwagon." If I see a dirty spot on Pedda I can grab a wet washcloth and the spot is gone within seconds. If a MC gets a spot of dirt (God help you if it's your show cat and it gets on the white) then you're looking at HOURS to clean it.

Yup... sphynx are the cleanest cats I've ever had.
 
Top