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Out crossing

ranalashae

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What exactly does that mean?! Haha Am I correct that sphynx are bred to regular cats and then back to hairless again? Is the whole little half-hairless, or do some have hair and don't don't?

I was looking at a breeder's site and saw a picture with two hairless kittens and one with hair... could these be out crosses? The same site also had some pictures of kittens that said "Outcrosses F2" What does this mean???

I feel like this may be a stupid question... Any info would be great! :BigSmile:
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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An F2 is a second generation outcross...

You breed a permissible outcross (DSH usually) to a Sphynx and you get an F1. These are usually all furry.

You take your F1 and breed it back to a Sphynx and now you have an F2. You should get 50/50 fuzzy/naked.

You take your F2 and breed it back to a Sphynx and you get an F3. All of these kittens should be nude.

I think those kittens are then considered Stud Book Traditional and simply Sphynx. ALL of the kittens produced can be papered as Sphynxes- but they will have different codes. ONLY the SBTs can be shown in the show ring.
 

ranalashae

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Oh wow thanks! I have no idea what Nala is... Hmmmm

Is there a specific breed of furred cat used to breed them with?
 

ranalashae

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She has ASH in her.
ASH,DSH and Devons outcrossed are allowed in TICA.
Only ASH and DSH are are allowed in CFA.
Most breeders are staying away from Devons now.[/QUOTE]

ASH, DSH? Is that a breed of cat?:Dizzy: hahaha
 
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I am glad this was asked! Thank you! I have been wondering this myself!

As I do not breed and do not understand the intricacies of the genetics, why would one outcross and not breed Sphynx to Sphynx?
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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To strengthen the gene pool- I'm not really good on genetics, but I believe we brought HCM and spasticity into our breeds by breeding to the Rex (correct me if I'm wrong!) and by breeding out, we are trying to dilute issues with HCM and spasticity. Which is one reason we are staying away from the Rexes... I'm sure you've probably heard of hybrid vigor- I think that's why some Sphynx breeders choose to breed with DSHs...

You can tell if a cat is outcrossed as far as in its recent history because of its registration number. If it doesn't begin with an SBT, you will know it's an F1/F2/F3...
 

Bella07

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From what I am aware of, outcrossing is done in order to broaden the gene pool by bringing new blood lines. This should increase the overall health of the Sphynx breed, including their immune systems.

So I like to think of it this way. If the Sphynx lines get too closely interwined, then you may end up breeding a "great-grandmother" to her "great-grandson."
Of course, that would not be a "good" thing when it comes to breeding, and mutations and/or genetic problems may arise. By using outcross programs, this helps prevent inbreeding.

I also have read that outcrossing should be done only by reputable breeders, with a lot of experience. Of course, I'm no expert. That's just what I have learned thru research!
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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Look at it this way...

Spasticity is a horrible disease and its a recessive disease- so like I've heard, recessives are forever...

Because our gene pool is limited, it is not unheard of for two cats to be bred, both with no known issues of spasticity, no known lineage of spasticity as far as the owners' are concerned, and the kittens end up being spastic. Why? Because recessives are forever and until those two cats, both carrying the recessive gene, were paired together- there was no reason to realize they carried spasticity.

Spasticity is pretty much unheard of in DSHs- so breeding outwards gives us fresh blood and more lines.

Now, it can also come to bite us in the butt. We bred outwards and introduced spasticity into our bloodlines in the first place. I believe the original Sphynxes had no issues with HCM or spasticity.

Just food for thought :) It is really hard work starting a new breed and sometimes heartbreaking when you realize you may have went in the wrong direction at times. I give kudos to all the old breeders who worked so hard to get us to where we are- and to the ones doing that work today :)
 

Mews2much

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Trish it did come from the Devon Rex that is why CFA does not allow rex outcrosses.
 

ckutkuhn7

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This is a very interesting thread.
What is spasticity?

I had to do a little research, I have never heard of it but after reading it, I've seen it alot at shelters.

Devon Rex Myopathy (also known as spasticity) (r)

Devon Rex myopathy is inherited in an autosomal recessive manner. The disease is seen in Devon Rex cats of either sex, with signs becoming apparent from 3 weeks to 6 months of age. The severity of the disease varies between cats, and may be static or slowly progressive. Affected cats show generalized muscle weakness, often with very marked weakness of the head and neck muscles, and dorsal protrusion of the shoulder blades. They typically have a high-stepping forelimb gait, and tire easily, with head bobbing, progressive protrusion of the shoulder blades, shortening of the stride, and muscle tremors. They eventually collapse onto their chest, usually with their head to one side of their forepaws. Clinical signs may be made worse by urination, defecation, stress, concurrent illness, cold ambient temperature, or excitement. At rest they often adopt a characteristic 'dog-begging' position, with their forepaws resting on a convenient raised object. Signs of megaoesophagus may include regurgitation, and/or aspiration pneumonia. Difficulty in maintaining a normal head position may result in frequent episodes of laryngospasm after obstruction of the pharynx (throat) with food. This is the most usual cause of death in these cats. The diagnosis may be supported by finding sparse fibrillation potentials and positive sharp waves on electrodiagnostic studies. Histopathological changes vary between cats, and also within different muscles of the same cat. Findings range from normal, to those indicative of myopathy, possibly muscular dystrophy. There is no treatment. Clinical signs may deteriorate up to 6-9 months of age, after which time the disease is usually stable or only slowly progressive. The course of the disease will depend on the severity of the myopathy, particularly the degree of pharyngeal involvement. Laryngospasm is the usual cause of death.
 
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Mews2much

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Many Devons carry the genes for that.
You beat me to posting what it is.
 

Sleepyheadkitten

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I consider it muscular dystrophy in cats, to make it simple to understand. It sounds very ugly :S
 

ckutkuhn7

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Many Devons carry the genes for that.
You beat me to posting what it is.

LOL Sorry, it raised my curiosity so much I had to find out. lol I've always heard to it referred to as MS but atleast now I know the term two ways! lol

I've seen it 3 times in shelters and it was one of the most saddest things I've seen. Luckily I was able to help in finding homes for the kitties and even fostered one for a week! They are remarkable pets to keep.
 

MissMySphynxBoys

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I give kudos to all the old breeders who worked so hard to get us to where we are- and to the ones doing that work today :)

I couldn't agree with you more. There were some great pioneers of the breed in the early years. I can't imagine what the breed would be like without their hard work.


If you look at my boys they were a result of Devon Rex outcrossing which was what was used in the early 90s. Although they were fairly healthy, the Devon outcrosses at the time tended to grow hair after they were neutered as they aged (opposite to human men).
 
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