Raw vs. dry raw

[Annika Laybourn]

So - I've had Hendrix for almost 2 weeks now, and I must admit that I think his poop smells pretty bad. Worse than other cats. It's not runny at all, so let me stress that I dont suspect that anything is wrong. But I was thinking that maybe I could feed him something better than standard overly processed dry and wet food. Im using Royal Canin right now, as this was what the breeder fed him.

The first week he didn't get any wet food (after advice from the breeder to prevent diarrhea when combining new home with wet food). And is it just my imagination or did maybe his poop smell better/less bad before the wet food? Im not sure. But either way - right now it smells pretty awfull when he runs by with poop foot . And even though thats a great way to discover the poop-bodypart situation, I still think it would be nice if the odeur was a bit less overwhelming. And I can't rule out that Im being a bit sensitive by the way - so maybe I could work on that as well

There's a part of me that thinks that this smell can't be a good sign. And with the weird stuff the put into processed cat food, maybe its not that healthy in the long run. Thats why I started thinking about the raw diet.

I would do a lot of research first (and of course read the pdf in here with raw cat food information!), and ask my vet what they think. But even if I would like to feed raw I dont have sufficient freezing capacity to do it in a good way (make it myself that is). We have the smallest freezer in the world, and no space for another freezer since we live in a small apartment. We are currently looking for a bigger place, but that could take up to a year, so I can't wait for that.

And maybe I dont have to. I read about the raw alternatives like Ziwipeak and Orijen. But I can't find any information on what effect it has on the stool. So Larians - you know so much - do you know this? And would these alternatives be considered better than normal dry/wet food? But not as good as real raw I guess? (for people who think raw is the best that is).

Any pros and cons I should know about?
And is it needed to supplement these foods? Is looks like they at least have some supplements in them, but I didn't go into that in detail.

Sorry about the lounge post!

 

[naomi]

I would say if you are going the route of freeze dry to pick an option that you are meant to rehydrate. It is essential that cats get water in their food as they have a low thirst drive and do not drink enough water on their own to keep their bowels optimally healthy. I would say (I am not a vet) the lack of moisture content is the main drawback in my mind as chronic low level dehydration is the culprit for renal failure and kidney stones ect. In cats and not the actual ingredients of the food. Personally if it was me I would stick to a high quality wet food rather than a dehydrated raw.
I feed Frida a homemade raw diet, which I find cheaper that canned food. I buy Frida's meat from a local butcher. They will even grind all of the ingredients together for me if I want. A lot of research should go into making a recipe for your cat I do stress that most vets will not be supportive of raw diet especially a homemade diet. This is because (much like human doctors) vets learn very little about nutrition and are encouraged to push the "prescription diets" (which is a trademarked term and not an actual medical prescription).
Prescription Diet A/D - Trademark #74253833, Owner: Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc. - Inventively
So just be prepared that if you intend to feed raw,especially a homemade (and much cheaper) diet, that a vet may not approve.
There is lots of research out there as well as great resources. Do what feels right for you and your cat. I will say that since switching to raw my Frida looks leaner, more muscular and is always healthy at checkups. Also her poo has virtually no smell anymore. When she was eating canned food she could clear a room it was so stinky!

 

[Xandria]

You ask a very good question, and I wish I had the answer. Hopefully someone else does.

But you're not alone in noticing the grande odour from some commercial cat foods. When Max was on commercial cat food you needed a gas mask to scoop the litter box. LOL Mind, even with raw, every once in a while they still drop a bomb!

Good luck! And you're an awesome sphynx mom!

 

[KitKat26]

I've had Piper for 2 weeks now and I was only feeding her dry as well (Royal Canin Kitten) and her poop smelled horrendous, not to mention she was very gassy and could clear the room. My husband is the one that suggested we need to do something so I put her on raw about 4 days ago. I only make 3 lbs at a time and put them in freezer bags and lay them flat so they defrost fast. It doesn't take up much room at all actually. It's easy to stack them.

Just after one day I couldn't smell anything any more from her No more stepping in poop, no more smells coming out of her, the litter boxes are cleaner, and poop is smaller. Everything I could have hoped for. Attached is a pic of my freezer bags of raw food that I made along with the supplement powder. I use the one for meat and bone but if it's hard to find a source that can grind all that up for you, you can buy their supplement without meat and bone and just buy regular ground meat. That would be easier probably.

I'm not sure about the other two brands you mentioned but thought I'd give you my experience so far with raw. Hope you find something that works.

Know What You Feed Your Cat - Shop Online

 

[admin]

I believe @Calicocious has experience here with commercial made raw -

Starting with a commercial made raw can be an easier way to start. The mixes that are available like Better in the Raw and Alnutrin are also very easy and can be much easier on the pocket book. All you have to do is add water, the mix and meat. I freeze a portion and keep around two days worth in the fridge in a glass bowl with a lid. I use a kitchen scale to measure out each meal. Good luck with the journey. The benefits are many.

 

[Annika Laybourn]

Thanks for your anwers so far. If anybody has any input feel free to chime in

The products I have looked at is Orijen: Cat & Kitten | Orijen it seems to be primarily meat, but still processed I think. They have freeze dried food for dogs, but I can't see that they have it for cats. The just call the cat food "dry cat food".

The other one Ziwipeak is both available as dry and wet food: the dry one is freeze dried, and the wet is canned. Example: Moist Cat Food | ZiwiPeak 'Daily Cat' Moist Cuisine

It seems that not a lot of people in Denmark do raw for cats, so the access to commercial food is limited, and the meat at the butchers is primarily beef, pork, chicken and lamb. Stuff like venison and kangaroo is more difficult to come by at a reasonable price. So I dont know. I would prefer to do it by myself as long as it seems that theres almost no market for commercial raw. And I must admit I also scares me a bit. Will he drag meat around the house? Will I malnourish him? Will it be a drag and something I wish I never did, and is it at all possible to go back to normal food? A lot of questions

 

[Yoda mom]

@Calicocious and others, which seems to be more palatable - Better in the Raw (Bitr) or Alnutrin
Mixed with ground chicken? And have you ever used ground turkey? I am looking just to substitute their wet food portion off their daily meals especially to try to get my dry food addict to eat some wet food-
Years ago I though I read not to feed both raw and commercial dry ?

Can I use these commercial raw diets to just substitute their canned food that they have with their primary dry food daily?

Thanks in advance!

Ps-I just can't bring myself to rabbit since I had as pets and no "roo" hunting in Florida Lord Max

 

[Annika Laybourn]

@Calicocious and others, which seems to be more palatable - Better in the Raw (Bitr) or Alnutrin
Mixed with ground chicken? And have you ever used ground turkey? I am looking just to substitute their wet food portion off their daily meals especially to try to get my dry food addict to eat some wet food-
Years ago I though I read not to feed both raw and commercial dry ?

I read that too somewhere in the forum. But then others actually do both - so I guess its possible. Probably depends on the individual cat.

 

[Hairless Blessing]

Your not supposed to feed raw and dry food. Because of the
digestion rate. If you do give them some dry and don't leave
it out all the time, you have to wait so long before feeding raw
and Vica Versa. So, I would do one or the other.
Royal Canin, is a good food. Dry and Wet. There is good fillers
and bad fillers. I wish I could find that post @admin posted about
this study. @Annika Laybourn and @Yoda mom maybe he will post
It since I mentioned him.

 

[admin]

Your not supposed to feed raw and dry food. Because of the
digestion rate. If you do give them some dry and don't leave
it out all the time, you have to wait so long before feeding raw
and Vica Versa. So, I would do one or the other.
Royal Canin, is a good food. Dry and Wet. There is good fillers
and bad fillers. I wish I could find that post @admin posted about
this study. @Annika Laybourn and @Yoda mom maybe he will post
It since I mentioned him.

I found this one on grain free diets - Sphynx Food - recommendations

 

[Annika Laybourn]

Im thinking that maybe the orijen is more like a "grain free" alternative, and the ziwipeak is a air dried raw food. But with a canned version as well. And its really expensive, more than double the price of the royal canin food. Im actually going nowhere on this Thinking that maybe Im just not cut out for doing any other feeding than classic dry and wet.

 

[Hairless Blessing]

As long as their healthy, happy, and loved, that's all that matter's.
There is more breeders that use Royal Canin, than any other food.
Izmae, always done great on it.

 

[Yoda mom]

@Hairless Blessing, do you know if UStew which uses cooked meat instead raw (by the same BITRcompany)
Can be used with regular free feeding dry food as a replacement of canned food?
Will try to call the company and see what they suggest

Which canned versions of Royal Canin is Izmae's Favorite ?
(I know RC is popular wih breeders with their breeders discount )

 

[Yoda mom]

@Annika Laybourn , my fiancée is laughing about cooking for kitties
Since I already make my own dog training treats he almost ate once

I may have to stick with commercial stuff

 

[JenFid]

Orijen is just your standard dry food. It's a good quality food, I actually feed this to our cats when we have to leave them overnight and can't give them their raw. It seems to agree with their system fine, and they like it well enough.

I don't have anything good to say about Royal Canin - both Ponzu and Mulder were on this as kittens (breeders feed this as I believe they get a special discount), wet and dry, and their poop stunk so bad, we had to actually wash Ponzu's back end a couple times because her stool was loose and it got caught in her fur. It's overpriced for the ingredients, IMO. Switching to raw solved all problems, as @KitKat26 it only took a day or so to notice the difference. Maybe it agrees fine with some cats, but not ours.

You don't need too much freezer space honestly, if you're just feeding one cat. Our freezer is small and I can fit two 5lb tubs of raw in there, and probably even more if you freeze it flat. Don't worry about special protein either (kangaroo etc), start with chicken, turkey, and see how Hendrix takes to those. If you're going to make it yourself you do need to supplement (commercial you don't).

 

[Annika Laybourn]

@JenFid Thank you for your answer. Very useful! It seems like theres a lot of stinky poop out there. It would be real nice to both do something about that and feed him something that logically seems like a healthier choice. Its real annoying to not know for real if it is, and to know that your vet will probably think its a bad idea. But Im gonna talk to them about it anyway. Right now I won't change his food for at least a couple of weeks till he's been for a month or so. That gives me time to investigate further

 

[JenFid]

@JenFid Thank you for your answer. Very useful! It seems like theres a lot of stinky poop out there. It would be real nice to both do something about that and feed him something that logically seems like a healthier choice. Its real annoying to not know for real if it is, and to know that your vet will probably think its a bad idea. But Im gonna talk to them about it anyway. Right now I won't change his food for at least a couple of weeks till he's been for a month or so. That gives me time to investigate further

Yes that's a good idea to let him get settled And maybe it depends on the vet but most likely they definitely won't agree! When I told mine when I brought Mulder in for a check up they were like "weeeeell we don't really recommend raw diets until they're a year old" which is probably better than I was expecting them to say, honestly!

 

[JazmineJolt]

I've had Piper for 2 weeks now and I was only feeding her dry as well (Royal Canin Kitten) and her poop smelled horrendous, not to mention she was very gassy and could clear the room. My husband is the one that suggested we need to do something so I put her on raw about 4 days ago. I only make 3 lbs at a time and put them in freezer bags and lay them flat so they defrost fast. It doesn't take up much room at all actually. It's easy to stack them.

Just after one day I couldn't smell anything any more from her No more stepping in poop, no more smells coming out of her, the litter boxes are cleaner, and poop is smaller. Everything I could have hoped for. Attached is a pic of my freezer bags of raw food that I made along with the supplement powder. I use the one for meat and bone but if it's hard to find a source that can grind all that up for you, you can buy their supplement without meat and bone and just buy regular ground meat. That would be easier probably.

I'm not sure about the other two brands you mentioned but thought I'd give you my experience so far with raw. Hope you find something that works.

Know What You Feed Your Cat - Shop Online

so glad to hear Piper is adjusting well to the raw diet! so excited to start mine on it...thank goodness there is a healthy alternative to constantly living in a cabbage factory! lol!

 

[Hairless Blessing]

@Hairless Blessing, do you know if UStew which uses cooked meat instead raw (by the same BITRcompany)
Can be used with regular free feeding dry food as a replacement of canned food?
Will try to call the company and see what they suggest

Which canned versions of Royal Canin is Izmae's Favorite ?
(I know RC is popular wih breeders with their breeders discount )

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about Ustew. I would call the company
or maybe someone here will know. I don't do raw but, I know you can't
feed raw and dry too. Unless there is so many hrs. in between.
I try to stay away from Chicken in the Royal Canin, only because so
many sphynx seem to have problems with it. But, I would try to stay away from
Chicken, no matter what I feed Izmae, just as a precaution.

 

[Annika Laybourn]

Oh dear - Hendrix is farting now. I dont remember my other cats ever doing that. :hungover::wideyed::wideyed:

Seriously considering changing diet soon!

Only thing that annoys me is that I just bought a lot of RC kitten food. Oh well... someone must be able to use it I guess.
If theres no runny stool then it can't be Giardia can it. Im just really impressed at how bad it smells

 

[Toa and Ross]

Oh dear - Hendrix is farting now. I dont remember my other cats ever doing that. :hungover::wideyed::wideyed:

Seriously considering changing diet soon!

Only thing that annoys me is that I just bought a lot of RC kitten food. Oh well... someone must be able to use it I guess.
If theres no runny stool then it can't be Giardia can it. Im just really impressed at how bad it smells

Ha ha ha Sphynx are famous due to their smelly poops. If you wantbto evacuate a place just let a sphynx farth:depressed:.

Since my boys eat raw food this barely happens any more so it can be a good reason to change diet. But raw food is difficult with buying and freezing so it's about what you hate most

 

[Yoda mom]

@Xandria, any feedback of TCFeline raw mix avail in Canada and US ,Europe.?
http://tcfeline.com

 

[Xandria]

@Xandria, any feedback of TCFeline raw mix avail in Canada and US ,Europe.?
http://tcfeline.com

I will be honest and say that I was not impressed with the ingredient list for TCFeline. They add xanthan gum, which is an unnecessary ingredient (used in this recipe to thicken the food). Xanthan gum is a bit of a nasty product and has no nutritional value whatsoever. Psyllium husks and gelatin are much better thickeners, and also have nutritional benefits.

In regards to the mix ins, if I had my preference I would use Alnutrin 1st, or Better in the Raw 2nd (which is what I use). Alnutrin charges for shipping and Better in the Raw includes shipping in their pricing. You would definitely want to try before you buy a huge bag (I buy the largest bag -- Max is a piggie).

And if I really really had a choice, I would use one of the recipes and completely make my own from scratch – but due to Max's chicken allergy, I can't use chicken livers or chicken bones and I honestly haven't sourced powdered liver (although maybe I should). One of the most difficult items to source for some is bone/calcium replacement. In my document I do list a couple of manufactured options, but they are not necessarily available in every country.

If you do consider making your own from scratch based on a recipe, see if you can find a distributor in a country near you that at least sells the NOW brand supplement products: NOW Foods - They will then likely have other items such as krill oil.

I really hope I haven't confused you, @Annika Laybourn – please let me know if I can help you in any other way. Because OMG, some foods can really adversely affect the older from the litter box!

 

[Annika Laybourn]

In regards to the mix ins, if I had my preference I would use Alnutrin 1st, or Better in the Raw 2nd (which is what I use). Alnutrin charges for shipping and Better in the Raw includes shipping in their pricing. You would definitely want to try before you buy a huge bag (I buy the largest bag -- Max is a piggie).

And if I really really had a choice, I would use one of the recipes and completely make my own from scratch – but due to Max's chicken allergy, I can't use chicken livers or chicken bones and I honestly haven't sourced powdered liver (although maybe I should). One of the most difficult items to source for some is bone/calcium replacement. In my document I do list a couple of manufactured options, but they are not necessarily available in every country.

If you do consider making your own from scratch based on a recipe, see if you can find a distributor in a country near you that at least sells the NOW brand supplement products: NOW Foods - They will then likely have other items such as krill oil.

I really hope I haven't confused you, @Annika Laybourn – please let me know if I can help you in any other way. Because OMG, some foods can really adversely affect the older from the litter box!

Nonono - I finally found a german retailer for some nutrients (premixed) and it looks alright. And they even have calcium replacement (Calcium/Knochenersatz). But Im not sure if I should check the content in the mix in more thoroughly to see if the amounts and content is ok. It doesn't say anything about amounts of for example vitamins:
TCPremix premix for making homemade raw meat cat food (also available in english text)

I haven't found anyone that supply all the ingredients to make my own supplement mix in, and quite frankly I prefer ready to use supplements for now - it will lower the beginners anxiety I have about doing something dead wrong!

I actually found someone to take the RC of my hands, so I should be able to tranit to raw in a not that far away future. IF i get a hold of supplements and meat and understand all that I need to understand of course

 

[Xandria]

Nonono - I finally found a german retailer for some nutrients (premixed) and it looks alright. And they even have calcium replacement (Calcium/Knochenersatz). But Im not sure if I should check the content in the mix in more thoroughly to see if the amounts and content is ok. It doesn't say anything about amounts of for example vitamins:
TCPremix premix for making homemade raw meat cat food (also available in english text)

I haven't found anyone that supply all the ingredients to make my own supplement mix in, and quite frankly I prefer ready to use supplements for now - it will lower the beginners anxiety I have about doing something dead wrong!

I actually found someone to take the RC of my hands, so I should be able to tranit to raw in a not that far away future. IF i get a hold of supplements and meat and understand all that I need to understand of course

Fabulous. Definitely get the Fibre one, not the Basic. The Basic contains xanthan gum, which I'd suggest staying away from. But the fibre looks good. (I know some German, thankfully).

Wow, I love that website. So nice to have a great source of Knochenersatz.

I think you're on the way to less stinky poop and farts. heee.