Too small? | Sphynxlair

Too small?

Discussion in 'Sphynx Cat Questions?' started by susi794, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. susi794

    susi794Moderator Staff Member

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    What weight/size makes a sphynx too small to breed? The breeder I'm thinking of buying her from says she is a little small--may not make it to 6 lbs. Is that too small?
     

  2. Brooke

    BrookeBanned

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    Susi, I just asked that question to a friend the other day...

    I think it depends on a few factors. I would think yes, that's too small because the breed standard calls for a medium build cat and she would produce smaller build cats. If the intention is to produce kittens that meet the breed standard, then you'd want to start with a queen that meets the standard, not just with her ear set, nose break, eyes, etc. but also her frame. Then, consider the size of the stud you would be breeding her with. If he's much larger than her, would the larger kittens cause undo stress on her body during pregnancy? That's a question I don't know the answer to - hopefully some of our breeding members can chime in! I'm also curious.
     
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    • ilovemysphynx

      ilovemysphynxAdministrator Staff Member

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      I would say 7 to 7 and 1/2 pounds would be A good weight to breed. Brookes answer was good, the males tend to be about 9 lbs so if you have A good size male and A small female this can cause problems during labor and having kittens that are to large and hogging up all the room while inside its mommy.
      Athena is 7 and 1/2 and Leo 9 to 9 and 1/2 the last litter we had started out as 4 kittens and most of you know we lost 2 of them our vet and I think this was because 1 of the kittens was so big that he hogged alot of the space and nutrients needed while inside the 2 smaller ones just did not get enough to make it, and that is with A female of good size. So if you are to breed A small female the chances of this go up.
      Then also like Brooke mentioned 6 lbs is not breed standard so why breed her? She should be only A pet and the breeder should know this.
       
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      • PitRottMommy

        PitRottMommyBanned

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        I do know the answer to that question. And it's YES. Large males (and even sometimes small males who produce large kittens because their parents were larger) will produce larger kittens. If the kittens cannot pass through the birth canal because the female is too small in that area...she is considered a "dystocia" and will require a c-section. After a c-section (just like with humans) the risk of pregnancy problems after becoming pregnant AGAIN increases drastically.

        Breeding small females is very risky (I cannot even describe the number of chihuahuas and yorkies who undergo emergency c-sections because they cannot pass their young...I've probably done 300 of these alone in the last 3 years). Cats normally do not have problems with dystocia...but it does stand to be said that a female can die because of ruptured internal workings because of large babies. Some may not even make it to a full term. Choosing a moderate sized female and a male that is no larger than 2 pounds (lean weight) larger than she is should be acceptable.

        I will also side note this by saying that I own a 6# female (who came from an 8# mom, a 12# dad and has two 9# brothers that live with her). She is altered, but given her size...I'd say there wouldn't be a snowflake's chance in hell I'd expect her to even try at this size. The risk would be too numerous to list.
         
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        • Mews2much

          Mews2muchV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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          My friend used to breed Persians and she had a kitten get stuck with one of her dams.
          The first kitten was born fine and the next one was stuck and it died.
          She needed a c section.
          I would not breed a 6 pound cat.
           
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          • susi794

            susi794Moderator Staff Member

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            Thanks everybody, that's what I thought...but when she quoted me what she thought the kit's weight was going to be, I thought maybe the size of her frame has more to do with it than weight--but she is obviously going to be petite and I don't want to take a chance on her or the kits being harmed. It was just a lovely thought because this kit is stunning!
             
          • Mews2much

            Mews2muchV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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            She might be great for showing.
             
          • havingalook

            havingalookV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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            That's the thing you can have a small framed girl that carries a lot of weight, and a large framed girl that needs to put on weight... but if she's not an acceptable size for the breeders program then why would she consider her an acceptable size for you? :Dizzy:
             
          • PitRottMommy

            PitRottMommyBanned

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            Maybe I misunderstood the intended purpose for this post...but petite females are common. And acceptable as pets, did you mean that if this cat wasn't acceptable for the breeders breeding program, why would she be acceptable for Susi's breeding program? I might've misunderstood.

            Maybe the breeder is under the impression that this cat isn't being used for breeding?

            Side note: I hope everyone is buying from breeders that are HCM screening their cats. Those that are breeding, I pray you're screening your breeders.
             
          • susi794

            susi794Moderator Staff Member

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            Yes, this breeder knows I intend to breed the kit I buy from her--I am paying for breeding and showing rights, so there is no misunderstanding on her part. She said she had held her back to consider for breeding, but decided to place her. I inquired about buying her with breeding rights as I had only seen a picture, so she then told me that she doubted she would get beyond 6 lbs. but if I wanted to "try her" she would place her with me for the same price as the younger kitten I was looking at. This woman is a reputable breeder-- has been named a cattery of excellence--so I don't think the cat being too small was an absolute. She only said she thought she was going to be quite small. But still...
             
          • PitRottMommy

            PitRottMommyBanned

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            Gotcha. Dots fully connected now, lol.

            I agree with your "but still" thinking. It'd be more kind (and safer) to obtain a kitten (or cat) with full rights that's larger than this currently available baby. Perhaps she'll have another hold back in the future that will be larger.

            Too bad, it sounds like was a beautiful little lady :)
             
          • havingalook

            havingalookV.I.P Lairian V.I.P Lairian

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            Yes, I'm talking about breeding not pet. Petite wouldn't be an issue at all with a girl that's going to be a spayed pet.

            BUT...The breeder isn't keeping the girl as she said she's too small for her breeding program (sizewise too small for her to concider her a good potential Queen) yet she's said that she'll sell her as a breeder. IMO, if she doesn't think she's a good size/ standard for her own programme then why would she consider selling her for someone else's. :ThumbsDown:
             
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