Veggie?

[BlueGirl]

Hey all, I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 and decided that I didnt want to harm any animals. Now when getting my baby i asumed i would just buy the best quality food i could for him, but while reaerching i read about the horrible animal testing and crulty carried out by alot of companies.

While reserching, peta directed me towards the benifits of having a vegitarian or vegan cat or dog. I was so happy to find a site in the UK that I could order veggie food from, so I dont have to compromise my belifes. At the same time, my baby getts all the nutrients he needs, and there are alot of added beniftits as well such as lowering the risk of heart dissease and helping combat skin allergys and such.

Ws just wondering if anyone else feeds their pets a veggie diet, or would consider doing so? any exsperiance with such food brands?

 

[Mews2much]

Peta is a bad company.
I can tell you so many bad things they have done.
I will not even get into what I think of them.
If it was up to them there would be no sphynx or other breeds of cats.
Vegie diets are not safe for cats no matter what they say.
Cats need some kind of meat.
My friends do not eat meat either and they feed their cats meat or they would be very sick.

Cats require certain nutrients from meat that cannot be obtained in sufficient amounts from plant foods. These include taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A, and vitamin B12.
Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid essential for cats but not for other mammals. In the prolonged absence of taurine, a cat's retina slowly degenerates and the cat suffers eye problems and can become irreversibly blind. This condition is called central retinal degeneration (CRD). Cow's milk is a poor source of taurine and there is none in plant foods. The only rich source is meat.
Arachidonic acid
Cats need a dietary source of essential fatty acids which they can then convert into other essential substances. A dietary source of the essential fatty acid, arachidonic acid, is not needed by humans as they can synthesise it from linoleic acid present in vegetable fat. However, cats lack the necessary enzymes to synthesise arachidonic acid and so a dietary source is essential. Fatty tissues and milk contain almost none and only small amounts occur in eggs. Meat is the only major source. Arachidonic acid deficiency takes some time to develop but its effect on the cat is profound.
Cats cannot utilise the provitamin A of vegetables and therefore require preformed vitamin A (retinol) which occurs only in animal foods. There are only small quantities of vitamin A in eggs and dairy produce. The richest source is liver.
Vitamin B12
Cat's cannot synthesise their own vitamin B12 and a dietary source is necessary. Vitamin B12 is present only in animal products.
Niacin
Unlike other mammals, cats cannot synthesise useful quantities of this vitamin from protein and therefore require a good dietary supply. Eggs and dairy produce are very poor sources and the niacin in cereals is largely unavailable to cats. A diet based on cereals, milk and eggs will always be deficient in niacin for cats. Meat is a rich source.
Thiamin
Cats are very susceptible to deficiency of this vitamin, which is rapidly destroyed by heat. Eggs and dairy produce are poor sources, wholemeal cereals and pulses are fair sources, meat is a good source.
Protein
Cat's require large amounts of protein in their diet and this can be a problem on a vegetarian diet. Over 25% of a cat's diet should be a protein.

 

[Shauntay]

This might be a tricky topic >.<

I am also vegetarian, and was vegan for many years. My reason for this lifestyle is simply, I do not want to eat a dead animal. However, I personally would not cut out all animal product from my cats diet, because of my own philosiphical views if it could in anyway compromise their health. I have heard of dogs being able to thrive on veggie diest with many supplements, but the domestic dog is considered an omnivore and the domestic cat is in no way near being omnivorous. Cats are true carnivores. So that is what makes me hesitate. Cats need preformed vit A, which they get from liver and fish oils, and greatest source of taurine comes from animal tissue. Even if, synthetically, they can make all the nutrients a cat needs using only plant based materials, plants have phytates, which limit the amount of nutrients that are actual absorbed by the animal eating them. Thats why herbevores spend so much of their time eating. I would be worried that, while it all looks very nice on paper, it might not work as well put into practice. And although these diets might be adequate to sustain a cat's health, they may not be the utmost best choice. Sphynx in particular have higher metabolisms then their hairy brothers, and need higher protein and fat percentages in their food to thrive. I dont like going against nature, and physiologically speaking, cats are meant to eat animal tissue. I have snakes, and they eat mice. I cant say I enjoy dropping mice in there, but it is what it is. There are a lot of "junk food" cat foods on the market. I researched long and hard before choosing which brand to feed my cats. Iams is a horrible company, and have very unethical practices.

Anyways, this is just my view on the subject. On the other side of it, I would hate it if I were subjected to eating an only meat diet!
But when it comes down to it, the people who make veggie foods will tell you the cons of meat diets and the pros of their diets they produce, just as the people who make meat diets will tell you the cons of veggie diets and the pros of their diets the in turn produce. So at the end of the day, we are the ones who have to decide what works for our families

p.s. On a side note, allergies can be developed against plant based proteins just as easily as animal based proteins.


so...we can NEVER win!!

 

[Mews2much]

I do not buy Iams either because of what they do.
I also rarely eat meat.
I do eat dairy though.

 

[Shauntay]

I cant quit icecream and chocolate, thats just not gonna happen.

I also cant imagine veggie cat diets are palatable...

 

[BlueGirl]

ok ok calm down. I wouldnt even consider this in any way if i thought my cat wouldnt be getting what it needs, i wouldnt jepordise any animals health because of my belifes, but Ive done some reserch and am doing more, and there are the sufficent nutrients in these foods, I only put the peta website up as an info point, i didnt say anything about them being perfect.

The food is more concentrated (kind of like iams) so that A. they get what they need from a non meat source and B. they dont need to eat as much.

I was just wondering if anyone else used these brands

 

[Shauntay]

well unfortunately, even tho these foods might synthetically meet the required nutritional standard as per the AAFCO Dog (Cat) Food Nutrient Profiles, those profiles were made with both meat AND plant based foods in mind, so they do not take into account the actual bioavailability of the nutrients in plant-only foods, nore their absorption by the cats system, which in actuality will not be in the same amounts as printed on the back of their bags under nutritional value.
I think when it comes down to it, it just seems so unnatural to force herbevism (is that a word??! ) on a natural carnivore.

But as I said before, these are my own thoughts on the matter, and I am sure we are all passionate about our own viewpoints. In the end, we all want whats best for our beloved families.

 

[BlueGirl]

well unfortunately, even tho these foods might synthetically meet the required nutritional standard as per the AAFCO Dog (Cat) Food Nutrient Profiles, those profiles were made with both meat AND plant based foods in mind, so they do not take into account the actual bioavailability of the nutrients in plant-only foods, nore their absorption by the cats system, which in actuality will not be in the same amounts as printed on the back of their bags under nutritional value.
I think when it comes down to it, it just seems so unnatural to force herbevism (is that a word??! ) on a natural carnivore.

But as I said before, these are my own thoughts on the matter, and I am sure we are all passionate about our own viewpoints. In the end, we all want whats best for our beloved families.

duno guess i just dont see it as that un-natural, no more so than living in doors, and not hunting for themselvs. each to our own and all that.

 

[Shauntay]

Environmentally unnatural is a lot different then biologically unnatural, but yes, to each his own

Considering cats dental makeup, its pretty apparent they were meant to eat animal tissue. Aswell, their short intestinal tracks are not made to accomodate diets containing large amounts of plant materials.

If you find any interesting articles concerning veggie diets, Im sure everyone would very much like to read them.

 

[BlueGirl]

well ok environment is different, but in the wild cats dont go diving for tuna or kill cows either.

this site has alot of good info, its got the pros and cons and makes a fair evaluation, taking in to consideration all aspects including as you mentioned the short intestine and ability to absorbe material.
Vegetarian Feline Diets

 

[Shauntay]

Very interesting article. Unfortunately, a lot of the cons in regards to meat based commercial foods are the low grade brands, that use bi-products and a plethora of animal parts. I wonder if there are comparisons, involving holistic high end meat based foods, like Innova EVO, or Wellness Core.

The meat based foods in question, "that contain assorted animal body parts, slaughterhouse wastes, 4-D meat (from dead, dying, disabled or diseased animals), supermarket rejects, styrofoam packaging, large numbers of rendered dogs and cats from animal shelters, complete with detectable levels of euthanizing solution; old restaurant grease complete with high concentrations of dangerous free radicals and trans fatty acids; bacterial, protozoal, fungal, viral, and prion contaminants, along with their assorted endotoxins and mycotoxins; hormone and antibiotic residues; and dangerous preservatives ", are in no way comparable to human grade holistic high end brands.

I'd LOVE to see Little Man hunt for salmon

 

[BlueGirl]

I'd LOVE to see Little Man hunt for salmon

I'm sure he'd have a good try!

 

[susi794]

Cats are carnivores. I am confused as to why you would purchase a carnivore if you don't want to feed it meat?

 

[Nofuratu]

duno guess i just dont see it as that un-natural, no more so than living in doors, and not hunting for themselvs. each to our own and all that.

It is completely un-natural for a cat to be vegetarian because cat's BODIES AND PHYSIOLOGY can not survive on veggie diets. It is un natural because of the way a cats digestive system works, and how their major organs function.

The only way to make a cat a vegetarian would be through a thousand or more years of enviromental change which would produce a different species of cat with a different physiology, through the process of natural selection!!!!

Please do not be offended, and Im sorry about the capital letters but this is scientific fact. Im a registered Vet tech, now retired, who worked in vet medicine for 13yrs. Ive had many conversations with people about veggie diets for cats and dogs.

Every Dr. of vet medicine and every technician will tell you this because we have studied feline anatomy and physiology and we have experience with feline medicine.

Cats are TRUE Carnivores. They can not live on veggie foods, regardless of what the package claims.

There are no laws regarding pet food lables in Canada and the U.S.

A bag of pet food can tell you its main ingredient is purple elephants from Detroit, and they can create a seemingly "legitimate" study proving their "purple elephants from Detroit" food is 100 percent nutritious.
But we all know purple elephant pet food is ridiculous right?
Same with Feline veggie diets.

Please, Please, Please do not attempt feeding a cat vegetarian.

If you want a vegetarian pet, get a dog. Dogs are Omnivores and can survive on a veggie diet.

The only other thing I would suggest if you are still serious about this and enjoy research, is get some feline anatomy and physiology books and read them cover to cover.

The members who have posted so far have given you some good advice, and have even been kind enough to specifically list enzymes and vitamins required by cats that can not be synthesised without animal tissue.

Im sorry if my intense passion on this subject comes off as rude. I mean to be nice, but I would have the exact same reaction if you told me you were getting a pet cow and planning on feeding it a carnivore diet.

 

[Bella07]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but rather than trusting what a few websites say....why don't you talk to some Veterinarians, Breeders, and any other Animal Professional involved in the health care field. I bet that if you talked to a vet, they would be able to tell you and inform you, on what should be done for the health and safety of your cats.

Good Luck on your decision.

 

[Gadzukz]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but rather than trusting what a few websites say....why don't you talk to some Veterinarians, Breeders, and any other Animal Professional involved in the health care field. I bet that if you talked to a vet, they would be able to tell you and inform you, on what should be done for the health and safety of your cats.

Good Luck on your decision.

Fabulous idea!

 

[holly_savage]

(Please don't take my post as an attack...it is not meant as it, just have to put in my opinion here...)

Sorry, but I just have to point out Felines (wether wild or house pets) are CARNIVORES. That means they eat other animals...period. You just can't mess with that.

Scientific data is a great source of information, but it can also be skewed one way or the other to support what it is you are trying to sell/promote.

And sure cats may not go fishing for Tuna or kill cows...but mammals are "red" meat...i.e mice, rats, and other small rodents/mammals. They will also eat bug, reptiles, amphibians. They eat birds, they can catch fish...it doesn't have to be tuna...they will pretty much eat whatever it is they can catch...and most house cats would revert to this diet in a second if left to their own devices in the wild.


(Maybe the Sphynxes wouldn't do so great around here in the wild mind you...brrrrr).

I feel like a B%@ch for posting this, but I just could not let it go.

 

[Jinxlover]

Cats are carnivores. I am confused as to why you would purchase a carnivore if you don't want to feed it meat?

I agree 100%..
Cats need meat that's all there is to it.

As a human YOU have the choice. The cat you keep and feed does not, if it did it would eat MEAT.

Maybe you should get a rabbit not a cat.

 

[Mews2much]

I was not trying to be mean either when I posted but I know alot about cats.

 

[Shauntay]

I second what M2M has said.

 

[ckutkuhn7]

I agree with everyone - cats are not meant to be on a veggie diet and I think its a bad idea for your cats health to persue such a thing. I think it would be a wonderful idea to gather several opinions from experienced breeders and vets you trust.

Please someone PM me with the information on Iams. I feed my cat Iams and now I'm worried they do awful things.

 

[ckutkuhn7]

Thank you - I'll be switching her brand of food tomorrow. I'm totally disgusted. I had no idea!! Of course I'll do the slow transistion but this defintley makes me want to get her off of it yesterday.

 

[susi794]

I wasn't trying to be mean either, but it's like I teach my third graders--I know you like frogs and salamanders and caterpillars and other small animals. But when you catch them and put them in a jar and punch holes in the lid and throw some grass in there and think, "I love this animal so much I am going to keep him." you have just given him a death sentence. One of the criteria of life is that the animal has a habitat that will sustain it. And habitats include food. If you try to force vegetarianism onto a cat, you aren't providing a habitat that will sustain it. And you too, will be giving your companion a death sentence.
It isn't a matter of to each his own. I'm sorry, but it just isn't. If I buy a pet goldfish and decide that I don't like those nasty fish flakes--that they are against my belief systems--should I then just decide to feed it french fries? I'm not trying to be mean, but you need to match the animal you choose to have as a companion with the food it requires and can survive on. PERIOD.

 

[maxtmill]

Re: Veggie?reply

Hey all, I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 and decided that I didnt want to harm any animals. Now when getting my baby i asumed i would just buy the best quality food i could for him, but while reaerching i read about the horrible animal testing and crulty carried out by alot of companies.

While reserching, peta directed me towards the benifits of having a vegitarian or vegan cat or dog. I was so happy to find a site in the UK that I could order veggie food from, so I dont have to compromise my belifes. At the same time, my baby getts all the nutrients he needs, and there are alot of added beniftits as well such as lowering the risk of heart dissease and helping combat skin allergys and such.

Ws just wondering if anyone else feeds their pets a veggie diet, or would consider doing so? any exsperiance with such food brands?

Heres a link read up about it, its really great!






Hi! PETA is a very extreme organization that itself has euthanized many animals. As far as diets go, cats are omnivores & MUST have meat in their diets, if I am not mistaken. Each species of animal is designed to digest certain nutrients - such as cows, which have multiple stomachs & chew their "cud" as their natural way of eating. You will do your pet a great disservice by not feeding it a balanced diet containing what God designed that animal to eat.

 

[Shauntay]

Maxtmill,

Cats are carnivores. The domestic dog is now considered omnivorous, but all felidae species are true carnivores. Just an fyi