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Wet poop on raw diet

Zeus1

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Hi,
I recently got a sphynx kitten and he has been on a raw diet since we got him. The breeder gave us her recipe so we’ve made a large batch which we’ve frozen and been feeding him that but his poops have all been very wet so I’m starting to get a bit concerned.
The recipe I’ve been using is:
500g mince
60g chicken liver
1 teaspoon bonemeal
50g sardines
1 egg yolk.

ive also been told to give him dry biscuits between meals but he won’t touch them. In fact he won’t eat any treats unless it’s meat based. I also feed him vitamin paste once a day

has anyone got any ideas as to where I’m going wrong?

thanks
 

Sheldon13

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Definitely start by taking away the dry food. He doesn’t need that if he’s getting raw and honestly it kind of defeats the purpose of feeding raw.

I am not sure on the recipe because I have never added bone meal, only a prepared supplement pack. I alway had bones ground in. I will say it is IMPERATIVE that you at least at in heart muscle meat or you are going to see some serious complication from lack of taurine.


Love and Sphynx ~ It’s all you need
 

Zeus1

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Have you ever had a fecal done to check for parasites? Perhaps adding a probiotic daily would help his gut.

@Condo commando I don't make my own raw, how does this recipe look to you? @Sheldon13

no I haven’t, I’ve only had him for just over a week and he’s at the vets next week for his first visit so I’ll see what they suggest
 

Zeus1

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Definitely start by taking away the dry food. He doesn’t need that if he’s getting raw and honestly it kind of defeats the purpose of feeding raw.

I am not sure on the recipe because I have never added bone meal, only a prepared supplement pack. I alway had bones ground in. I will say it is IMPERATIVE that you at least at in heart muscle meat or you are going to see some serious complication from lack of taurine.


Love and Sphynx ~ It’s all you need

thank you,
I haven’t been giving him the dry food as he would never eat it anyway.

I’ll be able to add the hearts to the next batch of food for sure, in the meantime I’ll purchase some taurine paste to supplement with.

im assuming the lack of bone is contributing to the wet stools so I’ll try to incorporate it better next time rather than relying on the bone meal. I don’t have a grinder so that makes it difficult. If I can’t find a butchers that is able to grind it all for for me I’ll have to look into purchasing one
 

Condo commando

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I'm not sure what the mince consists of....I use chicken thighs myself. The proportions of mince, liver and sardines look reasonable to me; however, I use a premix (ie, a supplement pack) so I don't know about bone meal or egg yolk. It could be there is not enough calcium in the bone meal, but I just don't know enough to help you with that....sorry.

Here are a couple of other things for you to think about:

1. Premixes - Using a premix is very easy because it does away with the need for a lot of separate ingredients. Taurine is one mineral in particular that is very important. Meat does have "some" taurine but we don't know how much, which is why it's always recommended to add taurine to your recipe. Heart is high in taurine so some people recommend adding heart; the trouble is we don't know exactly how much taurine is in heart meat and heart is also high in fat which we don't want to overdo. The "safe" thing to do is to add some taurine to the recipe and don't worry if it's too much because taurine is water soluble so your cat will simply pee out the extra. Or just get a premix. Premixes also include a whole host of things that might be small in amount but they help to round out the diet.

Here is a link to premixes for cat food....they are not all available in every country so you'll need to find one that you can buy in Europe:
Premixes for homemade food

I have been using Alnutrin for a long time so I have come to trust it. No ingredients from China. They ship to most countries. They sell different versions so be sure to get one that includes calcium. The package will tell you how much to add (it's a few grams per pound or per kilo). The packages are small so I buy several packages at a time and keep them in the refrigerator for freshness.

2. Source of meat - Since we are feeding raw meat, it is recommended to buy the meat frozen or from a butcher so it is fresh. If you are buying meat from the refrigerated case at your grocery store, you don't know how long it's been sitting there and once meat dethaws it starts to grow bacteria. It is still fine to sell for humans because we cook it, but it's not suitable for eating raw.

3. Allergies - While chicken is a great meat for most cats, a few are allergic. If the problem continues you might need to try a different source of protein. I would save this for last resort.

Hope this helps but feel free to ask anything else. It's harder when one is starting out but it gets better.
 
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Condo commando

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thank you,
I haven’t been giving him the dry food as he would never eat it anyway.

I’ll be able to add the hearts to the next batch of food for sure, in the meantime I’ll purchase some taurine paste to supplement with.

im assuming the lack of bone is contributing to the wet stools so I’ll try to incorporate it better next time rather than relying on the bone meal. I don’t have a grinder so that makes it difficult. If I can’t find a butchers that is able to grind it all for for me I’ll have to look into purchasing one
Various premixes are available that include calcium, so you shouldn't have to grind bones. I have been grinding bones and it's the hardest part of the job because you have to chop the bones into smaller pieces before you put them in the grinder, and then you should grind them twice. In fact, I'm looking into going to half and half - half of the food would have bones and the other half would use a supplement that includes calcium. So that's just food for thought.

You can put me down for no dry food too :)
 

Condo commando

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Taurine requirement daily.
DM = dry matter basis

You would need to calculate the dry matter weight of the food and then calculate the amount of taurine. It's not really straightforward....another plus for premixes.


Taurine.JPG
 
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Zeus1

Lairian
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
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I'm not sure what the mince consists of....I use chicken thighs myself. The proportions of mince, liver and sardines look reasonable to me; however, I use a premix (ie, a supplement pack) so I don't know about bone meal or egg yolk. It could be there is not enough calcium in the bone meal, but I just don't know enough to help you with that....sorry.

Here are a couple of other things for you to think about:

1. Premixes - Using a premix is very easy because it does away with the need for a lot of separate ingredients. Taurine is one mineral in particular that is very important. Meat does have "some" taurine but we don't know how much, which is why it's always recommended to add taurine to your recipe. Heart is high in taurine so some people recommend adding heart; the trouble is we don't know exactly how much taurine is in heart meat and heart is also high in fat which we don't want to overdo. The "safe" thing to do is to add some taurine to the recipe and don't worry if it's too much because taurine is water soluble so your cat will simply pee out the extra. Or just get a premix. Premixes also include a whole host of things that might be small in amount but they help to round out the diet.

Here is a link to premixes for cat food....they are not all available in every country so you'll need to find one that you can buy in Europe:
Premixes for homemade food

I have been using Alnutrin for a long time so I have come to trust it. No ingredients from China. They ship to most countries. They sell different versions so be sure to get one that includes calcium. The package will tell you how much to add (it's a few grams per pound or per kilo). The packages are small so I buy several packages at a time and keep them in the refrigerator for freshness.

2. Source of meat - Since we are feeding raw meat, it is recommended to buy the meat frozen or from a butcher so it is fresh. If you are buying meat from the refrigerated case at your grocery store, you don't know how long it's been sitting there and once meat dethaws it starts to grow bacteria. It is still fine to sell for humans because we cook it, but it's not suitable for eating raw.

3. Allergies - While chicken is a great meat for most cats, a few are allergic. If the problem continues you might need to try a different source of protein. I would save this for last resort.

Hope this helps but feel free to ask anything else. It's harder when one is starting out but it gets better.

okay thanks for all of the information. Fellini complete seems to be the easiest for me to get where I am, in an ideal scenario I’d rather not have to add premixes but if it ensures he’s not deficient in anything it’s a no brainer.
We just got him a new friend to keep him company and he’s on dry food which is a bit of a nightmare but I’m going to start converting him to raw also. They are both the opposite of fussy with the raw so far and seem to love it far more than the dry which is good.
 

Condo commando

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in an ideal scenario I’d rather not have to add premixes
That "ideal scenario" would require feeding the entire animal and also feeding various species of animals so there everything in the diet. That's the ideal, but most of us use the same few cuts of meat. The premix actually makes it easy because the nutrients are in the right proportion. So let's say for example that a certain nutrient calls for 10 grams per kg.....if you have 3 kg of meat you add 30 grams of premix and you're done. You don't need separate bone meal, taurine, vitamin A, vitamin D, etc.

The harm of not balancing a diet is not something you're going to notice for a while. Premixes are supposed to give you peace of mind that in the "here and now" you're giving everything your cat needs. Anyway I hope this helps.
 

Zeus1

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So my little guys poop has got much worse and is now diarrhea. He hasn’t been feeling too well all day, I’ve been trying to change up his food today but have been hitting road block after road block. My assumption is that I’ve not put anywhere near enough of the bonemeal to the food, basing on what it says on the tub, but I am also using store bought meat so that could also be contributing. The supplement I’ve ordered should be arriving tomorrow which states no bone or liver required but I really wanted to switch up the diet today so went on a trip to every butcher in the area that was open (not that many as it’s a Sunday) but not a single one was willing to grind the bone, nor did it seem that any of them had received such a request before, alas I was unsuccessful. I’ve tried feeding him more of the current batch but with extra bonemeal sprinkled into it, he ate most of his first portion but left a bit behind, which really isn’t like him, and our new little guy ate his leftovers. He wouldn’t even get up for his last meal of the day and has been sleeping a lot even for his standards.
I’m going to head to the butchers first thing tomorrow and hopefully when the supplement arrives will be able to feed him a mixture of the premix, chicken thighs and heart (as per recommended on the supplement) And he’ll start to be feeling more like his usual self
 

Condo commando

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@Zeus1 you should definitely prepare food according to the instructions on the premix. If it says no bone or liver then don't add any bone or liver. Liver is high in vitamins A & D and too much is toxic. Hopefully the problem your little guy is having is food related and using the premix will solve it.

I had a conversation with a butcher here in the USA and for what it's worth, he told me that he is required by law to thoroughly wash grinding equipment after grinding bones. This is for the safety of human food. Because of that, he told me it was hard for him to make time for grinding food for pets. He would do it once every 2-3 months. When it ran out, you had to wait until the next time. He was the only one that was even willing to do it. The good thing is there are premixes that include calcium for boneless meat.

If it were me, I would just feed some regular canned cat food for a few days until you can make food with the premix. Only a few days won't be bad.

Even with the premix, you will need a source of omega 3 for your home made food. One option is feeding a little bit of raw fish like sardines or herring (not more than 10% of the total food). Another option is to add fish oil to the food like this one:
www.amazon.com/Bayer-Liquid-Omega-3-Supplement-liquid/dp/B00CA72X60

This bottle of fish oil should last 236 days for 1 cat or 118 days for 2 cats.
 
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Zeus1

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@Zeus1 you should definitely prepare food according to the instructions on the premix. If it says no bone or liver then don't add any bone or liver. Liver is high in vitamins A & D and too much is toxic. Hopefully the problem your little guy is having is food related and using the premix will solve it.

I had a conversation with a butcher here in the USA and for what it's worth, he told me that he is required by law to thoroughly wash grinding equipment after grinding bones. This is for the safety of human food. Because of that, he told me it was hard for him to make time for grinding food for pets. He would do it once every 2-3 months. When it ran out, you had to wait until the next time. He was the only one that was even willing to do it. The good thing is there are premixes that include calcium for boneless meat.

If it were me, I would just feed some regular canned cat food for a few days until you can make food with the premix. Only a few days won't be bad.

Even with the premix, you will need a source of omega 3 for your home made food. One option is feeding a little bit of raw fish like sardines or herring (not more than 10% of the total food). Another option is to add fish oil to the food like this one:
www.amazon.com/Bayer-Liquid-Omega-3-Supplement-liquid/dp/B00CA72X60

This bottle of fish oil should last 236 days for 1 cat or 118 days for 2 cats.
We have a vet appointment tomorrow for his vaccinations so I’ll see what the vet says. From my understanding most vets are against raw diets so I’m not looking forward to that conversation. Although I never chose to switch to a raw diet, it was the diet he was already on when we got him.
We do also supplement him with a vitamin paste daily which seems to include a lot of the things you mention:

GimCat Multi-Vitamin Cat Paste at a glance:
  • Delicious Vitamin-Paste suitable for all adult cats
  • With immune boosting complex
  • 3in1 combination: 12 vital vitamins, oils and beta glucan to support a strong immune system
  • 12 vitamins: for strong immune system and to support various bodily functions
  • Naturally high quality oils: omega-3 and -6 fatty acids for good brain and heart function, as well as healthy skin and coat
  • Beta glucan: helps reduce inflammation in the digestive tract
  • Taurine: for good eyesight and healthy heart function
  • Suitable for daily feeding
  • No added sugar
  • Ideal for breeding or show cats
  • Recommended by veterinarians
  • Produced in Germany
 

Condo commando

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Great that you have a vet appt set up.....and no, vets aren't into raw food. All I can say is I've been doing it for 7 years and I can see the difference. One of my 3 had loose poo when I got him, and when I switched him to raw that problem stopped. Also, no smelly poo.

If raw is the issue, you can cook food for your cats. I'm starting to do that now for one of mine that has an immune problem; my other 2 will continue to eat raw. Honestly there is nothing wrong with cooking cat food if you cook it lightly....what you don't want to do is heat it so much that the heat diminishes the nutritional qualities. It's sort of like cooking to "medium" as opposed to "well done" ......which is how most humans like it anyway so imagine that :unsure:

Either way, when we make food at home we are using HUMAN quality meat, which is not what goes into commercial pet foods. We also don't add the preservatives and fillers that are the hallmark of processed foods. These are the biggest things, not that it's cooked.

My next door neighbor does a half-and-half deal where she makes half of the food for her dogs and the rest she uses commercial dog food. It's what she has time for and it's still better than all commercial dog food. Basically you have to look at everything and decide what you can do.
 
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Condo commando

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GimCat Multi-Vitamin Cat Paste at a glance:
  • Delicious Vitamin-Paste suitable for all adult cats
  • With immune boosting complex
  • 3in1 combination: 12 vital vitamins, oils and beta glucan to support a strong immune system
  • 12 vitamins: for strong immune system and to support various bodily functions
  • Naturally high quality oils: omega-3 and -6 fatty acids for good brain and heart function, as well as healthy skin and coat
  • Beta glucan: helps reduce inflammation in the digestive tract
  • Taurine: for good eyesight and healthy heart function
  • Suitable for daily feeding
  • No added sugar
  • Ideal for breeding or show cats
  • Recommended by veterinarians
  • Produced in Germany

While these ingredients are fine, if you are feeding a "balanced" recipe none of this would be necessary and in fact, you could be throwing the diet out of balance.

What I WOULD recommend if your kitten is getting vaccines is adding a probiotic to his food for a few days. Vaccines kill things and some of the things they kill are beneficial bacterial that live in the gut and help with digestion. So in order to counter the effect of the vaccines, I would add a probiotic to the food for a few days.

Here is one possibility....this contains probiotics as well as digestive enzymes ....it's just a loose powder that you stir into food. Might be cheaper elsewhere.
www.amazon.co.uk/Synacore-038134-VBNS-Feline-30ct/dp/B004ZMTRGM
 
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