The retching is back...

[PitRottMommy]

I'd try raw if I were you--no grain, no mites, it's healthier, meat chunks and bones mean no daily tooth brushing by you, poop smells better.

I find it quite odd that you'd also have problems like this in multiple foods. However, Susi said it best, raw's a good plan from here. And you've mentioned wanting to do it before...now might be a good time

 

[heather]

The vet called today with the results of her bloodwork and all is normal.

Now he suggests trying Science Diet t/d since it is a larger kibble and will slow down the process of eating.

I mentioned I wanted to try a raw diet and he said it was a good way to give her salmonella.

From what I've read as long as you handle the meat properly she should not contact salmonella, right?

I don't want to put her on Science Diet.
Does anyone know of a quality food that has larger kibble? All 3 brands of dry I've had her on have small kibble (Felidae, NV Rabbit and Lamb/Oatmeal).

I'm not sure if I should try larger kibble or just go ahead and try raw. I've researched raw a lot but still have questions and don't feel totally confident.

 

[Brooke]

I mentioned I wanted to try a raw diet and he said it was a good way to give her salmonella.

It's really frustrating, but you will be very lucky to find a vet that supports raw feeding unless you go to a veterinary nutritionist or a holistic vet. This stems from a lack of education in animal nutrition, and all the kick-backs they get from companies like Science Diet, who pay for their continued education and give them incentives to push their product in their offices.

I would have asked the vet, "how many countless cases of salmonella were there in the 2006-2007 pet food recalls of Science Diet?"

I can tell you, there have been 2 (yes, 2) reported cases that I'm aware of where a cat on a raw diet contracted salmonella and died. However, what we don't know about either of these 2 cases is - how the food was prepared, how it was stored, and how it was handled.

I will be the first to admit, I was hesitant to feed raw for a very long time for the same reason. It definitely wasn't something I jumped into lightly, but the benefits have been nothing less than staggering. The most important thing, though, is to find something that works for you and Sophie and that you are comfortable with.

 

[heather]

It's really frustrating, but you will be very lucky to find a vet that supports raw feeding unless you go to a veterinary nutritionist or a holistic vet. This stems from a lack of education in animal nutrition, and all the kick-backs they get from companies like Science Diet, who pay for their continued education and give them incentives to push their product in their offices.

I would have asked the vet, "how many countless cases of salmonella were there in the 2006-2007 pet food recalls of Science Diet?"

I can tell you, there have been 2 (yes, 2) reported cases that I'm aware of where a cat on a raw diet contracted salmonella and died. However, what we don't know about either of these 2 cases is - how the food was prepared, how it was stored, and how it was handled.

I will be the first to admit, I was hesitant to feed raw for a very long time for the same reason. It definitely wasn't something I jumped into lightly, but the benefits have been nothing less than staggering. The most important thing, though, is to find something that works for you and Sophie and that you are comfortable with.

Thank you Brooke. The ingredients in the Science Diet t/d are definitely nothing I want to give her so that's not an option. I could try the larger kibble but I don't know of any brand that is larger and I'm not confident it will solve anything -then again, I'm not a vet.

I do want to adopt a raw diet for her but there's things I'm not sure about like - if I give her organ meat and some bones- do I need to add something like feline instinct? do I need to add salmon oil? I know beef/pork aren't recommended but how do you choose what other meats you want to incorporate?

 

[PitRottMommy]

I couldn't have said it any better than Brooke, your vet's concerns are truly unfounded in the grand picture. You can happily state that you know a Veterinary student who helped her 2 cats recover from a case of Salmonella AND E. Coli AND enterococcus with RAW diet. I've done that. Twice.

Salmonella is a risk for us just like it is for pets. However, it sounds like your vet has absolutely no skill in the area of raw. Therefore, it wouldn't be a bad time to fix this problem and happily present to him that you did it with raw. I, personally, wouldn't put my cat on T/D. If he's concerned about her eating fast, try using the same food you've been using and placing large stones in her bowl so he has to eat around them. If the retching continues, it's not the speed of her consumption and a larger kibble won't help.

Raw diet is very simple. You use meat and organs most of the time, bone part of the time and supplement with taurine. Their poop becomes more predictable, they stink less, you're not putting a large amount of stuff into your cat that they don't need (or can cause future problems). Cats and dogs process meat much faster than they process filler. So, bacteria becomes less of a problem. Aside from that, your vet acts like there's no treatment for such problems. Baldwin had this problem for 8 months and Buck for over 15 months...it's not like the owner doesn't have warning on a healthy pet even if they WERE to contract a case of Salmonella. Let's be honest, this is a bacteria that's in the intestines commonly...using a round of antibiotics could easily off-set the flora enough to cause an overgrowth in Salmonella. Consider how quickly vets turn to using antibiotics in any given case.

Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Mill Run, Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

You can see that the majority of the food is filler. I, agree, I wouldn't want to put my pet on this diet either. It's crap. You're paying for veggies and grains with meat flavoring. Don't we do that with like...Ramen noodles?

Why not start with something like Nature's Variety raw rabbit or chicken? Everything you need is already in the bag: no supplementation needed.

 

[lemmysmommy]

All this mites talk makes my skin crawl...I may have to switch to raw sooner than I thought too!!

 

[heather]

Good news!

This afternoon I went to get Sophie some NV frozen Raw food. The lady at the pet store also gave me a starter variety pack of Primal Pet Foods frozen raw food.

I got home, thawed out a sample of quail and Sophie GOBBLED it up.

I think this is a good sign she will like a raw diet!

Thank you everyone for your support and input!

 

[susi794]

You go, Sophie! Raw rocks!

 

[ckutkuhn7]

Sweet!!!! Great news!

 

[Brooke]

Good news!

This afternoon I went to get Sophie some NV frozen Raw food. The lady at the pet store also gave me a starter variety pack of Primal Pet Foods frozen raw food.

I got home, thawed out a sample of quail and Sophie GOBBLED it up.

I think this is a good sign she will like a raw diet!

Thank you everyone for your support and input!

Go Sophie!!! Can't wait until she's totally converted and you get to experience your first raw poop! Please tell us about it, and if you notice any other changes, ok? And, let us know if that takes care of the retching.

...figures she would love the quail..it's one of the more expensive ones. It's so very easy and convenient. If I didn't have to feed 4 hungry cats, I would probably still be buying Nature's Variety and Primal, but it just got to be too expensive - we were going through a bag every 3-4 days!

My advice to you is variety, variety, variety! Don't be surprised if she loves a flavor one month and then turns her nose up at it the next. So to avoid that, try different flavors with her to keep it interesting. Maybe buy two different kinds at once and offer (for instance) quail for a few days and then switch it up for turkey and then back to quail. I used to buy in bulk for convenience, and then ended up with bags of food they decided they didn't like anymore - after they'd happily devoured it the week before. Interestingly, I don't have the same issue with my homemade raw....yet...

 

[lemmysmommy]

Glad to hear that Sophie likes it......hope this stops the retching!!

 

[heather]

Go Sophie!!! Can't wait until she's totally converted and you get to experience your first raw poop! Please tell us about it, and if you notice any other changes, ok? And, let us know if that takes care of the retching.

...figures she would love the quail..it's one of the more expensive ones. It's so very easy and convenient. If I didn't have to feed 4 hungry cats, I would probably still be buying Nature's Variety and Primal, but it just got to be too expensive - we were going through a bag every 3-4 days!

My advice to you is variety, variety, variety! Don't be surprised if she loves a flavor one month and then turns her nose up at it the next. So to avoid that, try different flavors with her to keep it interesting. Maybe buy two different kinds at once and offer (for instance) quail for a few days and then switch it up for turkey and then back to quail. I used to buy in bulk for convenience, and then ended up with bags of food they decided they didn't like anymore - after they'd happily devoured it the week before. Interestingly, I don't have the same issue with my homemade raw....yet...

I had no idea the quail was the most expensive! That does figure.

She's acting like a lunatic tonight! Every time I go in the kitchen she cries like either she's still hungry or just wants more. But she's also running around like she's happy and being playful too.

All they had was the patties and the feeding calculator for her age/weight says half a patty per day. It doesn't seem like much.

What does the patty look like? I got the NV Rabbit and it is a light tan on the outside and when I cut it in half its pink. Is that right? I want to make sure because there was some ice around the patties in the bag so I'm concerned that maybe it was either in the pet store's freezer for a long time or - my worst fear - it got thawed a bit and re-frozen in handling some how. It was the last bag so maybe it was in there for a long time. Just in case I ordered 2 more bags of medallions- which I wanted anyway - online. If this coloring doesn't sound right I will throw the bag away.

Thank you for the tips on variety Brooke! I will definitely keep you all posted. Can't wait for raw poop !!

 

[Brooke]

I had no idea the quail was the most expensive! That does figure.

She's acting like a lunatic tonight! Every time I go in the kitchen she cries like either she's still hungry or just wants more. But she's also running around like she's happy and being playful too.

All they had was the patties and the feeding calculator for her age/weight says half a patty per day. It doesn't seem like much.

What does the patty look like? I got the NV Rabbit and it is a light tan on the outside and when I cut it in half its pink. Is that right? I want to make sure because there was some ice around the patties in the bag so I'm concerned that maybe it was either in the pet store's freezer for a long time or - my worst fear - it got thawed a bit and re-frozen in handling some how. It was the last bag so maybe it was in there for a long time. Just in case I ordered 2 more bags of medallions- which I wanted anyway - online. If this coloring doesn't sound right I will throw the bag away.

Thank you for the tips on variety Brooke! I will definitely keep you all posted. Can't wait for raw poop !!

The patties do look kinda gray...not really pink like the photo on the bag and I always had ice on my patties and nuggets.
Once, I ended up with freezer burned patties, but it was obvious, because they had patches of almost white freezer burn on them. Nature's Variety has a really good return policy and will take back any food for any reason, no questions asked - so never hesitate to return it. Even if it's because it's a flavor she won't eat, you can exchange it for a different kind. Be sure to check the date on the bottom of the bag, and look for one that isn't about to expire.

The feeding chart is just a suggestion. I found that with Nature's Variety, I had to feed more than what was recommended. With Primal, though, my cats seemed satisfied with the recommended amount on the bag. You'll eventually figure out what works for Sophie. If she starts to put on weight, reduce a bit, and if she starts to lose weight, feed a bit more.

 

[heather]

The patties do look kinda gray...not really pink like the photo on the bag and I always had ice on my patties and nuggets.
Once, I ended up with freezer burned patties, but it was obvious, because they had patches of almost white freezer burn on them. Nature's Variety has a really good return policy and will take back any food for any reason, no questions asked - so never hesitate to return it. Even if it's because it's a flavor she won't eat, you can exchange it for a different kind. Be sure to check the date on the bottom of the bag, and look for one that isn't about to expire.

The feeding chart is just a suggestion. I found that with Nature's Variety, I had to feed more than what was recommended. With Primal, though, my cats seemed satisfied with the recommended amount on the bag. You'll eventually figure out what works for Sophie. If she starts to put on weight, reduce a bit, and if she starts to lose weight, feed a bit more.

THANK GOODNESS you said that it is TOTALLY expired by a LOT- Best if used by August '09 . I'm so glad I didn't give it to her- I only gave her the Primal sample. I was suspicious by the amount of ice on the patties but according to the pet store they sell a lot of Primal AND she was worried about running out of the NV since I had called but she had sold another bag before I even got there this afternoon. I'm upset with myself too- for not thinking to look for a date on the bag! Looks like I'm going back there tomorrow morning!

 

[Brooke]

THANK GOODNESS you said that it is TOTALLY expired by a LOT- Best if used by August '09 . I'm so glad I didn't give it to her- I only gave her the Primal sample. I was suspicious by the amount of ice on the patties but according to the pet store they sell a lot of Primal AND she was worried about running out of the NV since I had called but she had sold another bag before I even got there this afternoon. I'm upset with myself too- for not thinking to look for a date on the bag! Looks like I'm going back there tomorrow morning!

Yours might have some freezer burn, too, then! Good catch. I doubt it would've made her sick at all, but she probably wouldn't have eaten it. That's how I figured out something was wrong with mine...I thought it looked strange, but I thawed it out, put it down for the cats and they all sniffed it and looked up at me like I had a third eye expecting them to eat that.

At least you know the next shipment they get will be very fresh!

 

[heather]

Yours might have some freezer burn, too, then! Good catch. I doubt it would've made her sick at all, but she probably wouldn't have eaten it. That's how I figured out something was wrong with mine...I thought it looked strange, but I thawed it out, put it down for the cats and they all sniffed it and looked up at me like I had a third eye expecting them to eat that.

At least you know the next shipment they get will be very fresh!

I'm still so thankful you mentioned it! I bought new bags from there today that don't expire til 2011. Plus I ordered some online so I'm going to be fully stocked now.

Sophie has really taken to the medallions. She meows incessantly every time I go in the kitchen now seemingly asking for more-- but I can't tell if she's hungry or just really enjoyed it and wants more!

I'm still supplementing her with her canned food while transitioning her but I've cut the dry out - I don't want to see her retch anymore.

 

[susi794]

I'm still supplementing her with her canned food while transitioning her but I've cut the dry out - I don't want to see her retch anymore.

Good for you! Am glad she is taking to it so easily. If you don't mind me asking, where online are you ordering it from?

 

[heather]

Good for you! Am glad she is taking to it so easily. If you don't mind me asking, where online are you ordering it from?

Thank you!

I ordered it from Pet Food Direct. (http://www.petfooddirect.com/)
To be honest, they don't have the best prices in the world but have been convenient when I need something the local stores run out of or don't keep in stock. It gets to me pretty quick since they ship from PA and I'm in MA. Not sure if you've used them before but they often email coupons or you can google the promo codes to at least get a bit of a discount.