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Getting some red flags, would like opinions

Gadzukz

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I am so confused. She said the kittens are 1/2 Sphynx...How? The mothers are clearly not Sphynx. They just look like cats with mange to me. And if she doesn't have a male Sphynx... Even if the mother cat was a Sphynx & dad was coated, the kittens would all be fully coated. These are my F1 kittens. F1s carry the hairless gene, but are NEVER hairless at all. They need to get the hairless gene from mom AND dad in order to be hairless at all. These kittens look very sick & that woman is a flat out liar. Please do not bring those kittens home & let us know if you find any info on her.

Thanks for your input, since you have some experience can you answer some questions for me?
She says the moms are donskoy sphynx and some have more coat than others. I googled it and saw that there are different coat types, could this be what she has?

The one cat looks like a reg DSH to me, but the other has a very sphynx like head I think, do you see that ?

The donskoy info I googled said the kits can be born coated but with a bald spot on the head, and then would lose their hair by age 2, have you heard this before?

Is the donskoy or peterbald different genetically from the other (canadian?) sphynx?
Any info you have is greatly appreciated
 
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Mews2much

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Peterbalds are different then sphynx.
This info is from a breeder I know.
Genetic:
Of course, this is the biggest difference. Both the Sphynx and the Peterbald are natural mutations of a hairless cat. The Sphynx gene is recessive. The Peterbald gene is dominant. This means that if you breed a Sphynx to a regular coated cat, you will get all regular coated cats in the litter of kittens. If you breed a Peterbald to a regular coated cat, you will likely get some hairless kittens (or what we call brush coats) in the litter of kittens.

Peterbald History:
A hairless cat (actually, a hair losing cat that eventually ended up hairless) was discovered in Moscow, Russia in the late 80's. Moscow breeders thought it was a Sphynx, but the genetic make-up turned out to be different. They bred the cat to a Domestic Shorthair and called the cat a Donskoy (also, called a Don Hairless). Some breeders from St. Petersburg, Russia decided to go another route. They breed the Donskoy to a Oriental Shorthair. The result of that breeding, of course, led to a very Oriental body type on a hairless cat. This, being a different breed, was called the Peterbald (name derived from the name of St. Petersburg). The Peterbald went on to be more popular and was accepted in TICA. I have the daughter of the first Peterbald here at Magnoliachat. She was the first one in the U.S. Getting a little older now, but still doing wonderful and healthy. The Peterblad is now accepted for championship status in TICA.

The looks:
I, usually, refer to the Sphynx as the "cute one" and the Peterbald as the "elegant one". The Sphynx is a little smaller, has a more elf like face, and should have a little bit of a pot belly. The Peterbald is long and lean. There are some differences in the Peterbald body type and an Oriental Shorthair or Siamese, but you can definitely see the influence.

Personality:
Every cat is different, of course, but Peterbalds tend to be more active and athletic than the Sphynx. They are a little more demanding and vocal - but not near as vocal as a Siamese. They like to be cuddled - just like the Sphynx, but are more likely to fetch and are totally attentive to humans. The Sphynx is, also, attentive to humans, but I have found that they are not as "dog like" in their quickness to respond. Both are like full of antics and make a presence in any home. Most of my Peterbalds will walk on a leash and want to go with me when I leave the house.

The Care:
Both these breeds are completely indoor cats. They don't get cold like people think they would. They do like a nice blanket to sleep under, though. Similar to how we, as humans, like to sleep at night. They don't have to wear a sweater around either, although some owners like to dress them up, which they are fine with. The Sphynx tends to produce more oil on the skin. Don't know what this is, but it is definitely there. My Sphynx (I just have 2 pet Sphynx now) will leave a dark grease spot on my bed or clothes if they go too long without a bath. I bathe my Sphynx every month. I only bathe the Peterbalds once every 4 or 5 months. The needed bathing interval depends on the specific line of cats, though. Some require more and some even less - same with the Sphynx. Other than that, keeping the ears clean is the only other grooming needed (besides nail clipping). Since they do not have hair protecting the ears, that can need cleaning a little more than other breeds.

The bathing and ear cleaning is pretty easy, though. It is like bathing a human baby. It takes me about 5 minutes to do it. All of mine tolerate bathing and, even, like it. Quick shampoo up and rinse off. Dry off with a towel and you are done. No hair to worry about.

There are different coat types to the Peterbald that you should be aware of:
Ultra Hairless - a very bald cat with no sign of any hair at all. Feels like a very soft leather.
Suede and Chamous - appears hairless, but has a very soft feel. There is hair, but don't perceive it when looking at the cat. The Suede has a tiny tiny bit more hair (rub backwards and you can notice it) than the chamous.
Brush coat - Varying lengths of wiry coat.
Straight coat - regular coated cat and doesn't carry the gene. These will look a lot like an OSH. We use outcrosses of the OSH and Siamese, so we still get these.
Fur Point - tiny bit of hair on extremities - face, feet, and tail.

For showing, the cat can be brush up through the kitten class. After that, the Peterbald must be Suede, Chamous, or fur point.

One other difference:
The Sphynx can have a tendency to gain hair as they get older. The Peterbald is opposite. The Peterbald will tend to lose hair as they age. There is, actually, a hairlosing gene with the Peterbald. Some are born with a brush type coat and lose it.










 

Gadzukz

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Thank you M2M you are always helpful! So is it possible these kittens are part donskoy? It sounds like it could be.
Thank you again for all this information!
 
J

Jinxlover

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Thank you M2M you are always helpful! So is it possible these kittens are part donskoy? It sounds like it could be.
Thank you again for all this information!

I was told that Donskoys were born with hair and a bald spot on there head and there hair falls out later.
Now I know NOTHING. I was just told that by a person in a pet store when we were talking about Sphynx, she was a donskoy breeder.
 

Gadzukz

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I was told that Donskoys were born with hair and a bald spot on there head and there hair falls out later.
Now I know NOTHING. I was just told that by a person in a pet store when we were talking about Sphynx, she was a donskoy breeder.
That's what I found online too, but like you I have no breeding experience to draw on. I wonder if it would be possible to get that from a coated mother? And that mom cat does NOT look 3 to me, I could be wrong, but she seems so small ya know??
 

Gadzukz

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It's really hard to know what to do here. I know realistically I can't afford a pure sphynx kitten for a long time. (I have one kid in braces and two that need em and we live on a cop's salary) One one hand if I don't adopt the kittens someone else will and I know I could give them a loving home. I sooo want a kitten. On the other hand I don't want to promote poor breeding practices but most well bred cats are far out of my reach financially. It doesn't seem like this should be so tough, but it really is for me.
 
J

Jinxlover

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Well in the end I think it's just what you can live with.. We can give you our opinion, but that's what it is OUR OPINIONS. If they are sick you stand a chance of making the cats you have sick. On the other hand I agree they are here and need homes, yours is just as good as any. I'm not saying I like the idea of giving my money to a bad breeder but you paying little of nothing for the kittens.

My OPINION....
They are here, they need love the same as a $1000 kitten. If you want to take the chance on a vet bill give them a loving home. I would plan on a vet bill though. That's my .02. I'm also a sucker for a hard luck case:Dizzy:.
 

holly_savage

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Don't forget about the shelter cats. If you aren't particular about what kind of cat, there are tons of loving and cute cats and kittens there, for a fraction of the price and they come altered and UTD on shots...

I would love to adopt a 'regular' hairy kitten from a shelter, but with Greg's allergies, it is not a possibility:Cry:

There are so many that need a home!
 

Nair Bare

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Because I am a true Sphynx lover, I would never give one thin dime to someone who is trying to profit off this breed in such a cruel manner. It certainly looks like a kitten miller to me. I'm betting this will be a "bait & switch" deal. Sure this kitten is only $20.00 but this far better kitten will be $XXX. Or how many times will she sell this $20.00 kitten?

She is playing on your heart strings. So fall for it.......hook..........line...........and sinker! Offer to send her beds, litter boxes, cases of cat food....anything that needs to be delivered to her door. Beat these opportunists at their own game. You must get their physical address anyway you can. It is OK to lie to liars. Tell them you have a large cat kennel you want to donate to them. Promise to send them ANYTHING that requires their actual mailing street address. Most delieveries require a phone number too. Get their phone number and cross-check that thru a reverse directory. Once you have an actual address, contact a breeder/rescue/enthusiast in that town to do a drive-by or phony drop-in (trying to find a local address). This is animal networking at its very best!

From this information you can usually find an animal enthusiast who will made it their goal to shut this miller down. Far too often the local authorities treat millers as livestock owners just peddling their wares. However, any true animal lover or breed enthusiast will get the bit in their teeth and RUN with it. I once helped close down a Great Dane miller by turning them into the IRS and made their "breeding hobby" a living nightmare.

If you decide to pay any amount of money for these sickly kittens, then you will most likely be dooming the remaining animals to a life of producing some profit. Be strong and think of the next generation, and the next generation, and the next generation.
 

ckutkuhn7

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Because I am a true Sphynx lover, I would never give one thin dime to someone who is trying to profit off this breed in such a cruel manner. It certainly looks like a kitten miller to me. I'm betting this will be a "bait & switch" deal. Sure this kitten is only $20.00 but this far better kitten will be $XXX. Or how many times will she sell this $20.00 kitten?

She is playing on your heart strings. So fall for it.......hook..........line...........and sinker! Offer to send her beds, litter boxes, cases of cat food....anything that needs to be delivered to her door. Beat these opportunists at their own game. You must get their physical address anyway you can. It is OK to lie to liars. Tell them you have a large cat kennel you want to donate to them. Promise to send them ANYTHING that requires their actual mailing street address. Most delieveries require a phone number too. Get their phone number and cross-check that thru a reverse directory. Once you have an actual address, contact a breeder/rescue/enthusiast in that town to do a drive-by or phony drop-in (trying to find a local address). This is animal networking at its very best!

From this information you can usually find an animal enthusiast who will made it their goal to shut this miller down. Far too often the local authorities treat millers as livestock owners just peddling their wares. However, any true animal lover or breed enthusiast will get the bit in their teeth and RUN with it. I once helped close down a Great Dane miller by turning them into the IRS and made their "breeding hobby" a living nightmare.

If you decide to pay any amount of money for these sickly kittens, then you will most likely be dooming the remaining animals to a life of producing some profit. Be strong and think of the next generation, and the next generation, and the next generation.

Good thinking!!
 
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